Banks wants a charging order on my property

[IanM]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

The debtor has offered to pay back the loan at a rate he can afford but is unwilling to turn the unsecured loan into a secured loan.

If they can accept 3% with a charge against his home then why can they not accept 3% with no charge against the house?


He is being forced to accept the banks terms or face going to court and paying an extra 5% on top of a previously unsecured loan so in my eyes he is being coerced into accepting a deal he is completely unhappy with and that is as good as blackmail/extortion.

If Dontletthem didn't own a 2nd property and was renting or was living with someone that owned their own house, without his name on the deeds, then what would the banks do?

My guess is they would accept the offer he has already made!

[labman]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

We have to go with his real circumstances, not ones we fabricate to suit our arguments. You simply cannot go around accusing banks of blackmail and extortion unless you are prepared to take the consequences.

@Dontletthem, PLEASE do not even consider this argument.

@Ian - I can see your point, but sadly it simply is not workable.

[IanM]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

We have to go with his real circumstances, not ones we fabricate to suit our arguments. You simply cannot go around accusing banks of blackmail and extortion unless you are prepared to take the consequences.

@Dontletthem, PLEASE do not even consider this argument.

@Ian - I can see your point, but sadly it simply is not workable.

This is exactly why the banks etc get away with everything they do, because people are too scared of the consequences to put up a fight.

If all we are going to do is fight them using the rules the banks make for themselves then we are fighting a losing battle and i am in the wrong forum!

While we may win the occasional individual battle against the banks the overall war will never be won because people are too divided and bottle-less to make any real changes to the system so i no longer see the point of me being here at all.

Thank you and goodbye!

[MissFM]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

Dear Ian M

As a complete newbie, FWIW, I really value your advice - certainly v helpful over my (still intractable) problem.

And as a non-lawyer, I can see your argument in this case is completely logical and correct - which is exactly how the courts should work ie without fear or favour - but they don't, particularly as far as large financial institutions are concerned. In any other field this kind of behaviour would be clearly seen as extortion (and why can't we call it that when banks do it?) but somehow banks are exempt.

Can also see that Labman is concerned that this line would expose dontletthem to a test case which he would most likely lose, not on merit, but on the fact that their (the Bank's) pockets, propped up by the taxpayer, are bottomless.

It's wrong, isn't it? Every one except the hallowed banks has to compromise.

[dontletthem]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

Hi everybody and thanks for all the advice so far.

If the overdraft was covered by the Consumer Credit Act then I would take the bank on as the interest would be reduced to zero following the judgement (as I understand it) but as this is a business debt then it appears that, even though I am now personally responsible for it, I don't get this protection. I really feel that banks should explain all this when granting the loan but they don't.

I will try and negotiate a better deal but I'm also wondering what they would accept as a full and final settlement. I don't have the money personally but if I could get a good deal wealthy family members might help.

Does anyone have any experience of Full and Final settlements?

[labman]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

Ian - this is nothing against you. It's FOR the OP to protect them as best we can, and get a reasonable solution. We do him no avours exposing him to huge court costs where he may lose everything. You may call that bottle-less, it's actually common sense.

Your opinion is as valuable as anyone elses, but remember we're here to help posters, not expose them to high risk strategies.

[labman]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

What portion of the 10K is charges?

[dontletthem]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

Hi labman, I don't know the exact figure but there are set up and renewal charges which total at least £750 plus interest charged at about 11.5% which must amount to a good few thousand. I would have to go through all the statements to work it out but I would think interest paid over the last three years would be over £5000 - the facility was up to £25000 and we were up to our limit fairly consistently.

Are you thinking that this might be a bargaining tool?

[labman]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

I'm certainly thinking that a portion of charges (any you deem unfair) should be taken off the sum owing, and then there is a calculation I can point you to which works out the F&F offer for you.

[dontletthem]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

Thanks Labman, very interested in the F&F calculator if you can point me to it.

Thanks.

[Nikolai]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

Just to clarify a point here - 8% is the rate of interest allowed by a court on a judgement debt. It's a statutory rate. This differs from the contractual rate, which is the rate agreed between you and the bank. The bank may be saying that if they have to go to court they'll get 8%. They may be right.
The change in the rules about charging orders seems clear enough and I don't think it could be successfully challenged.

[ed.]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

Ian - this is nothing against you. It's FOR the OP to protect them as best we can, and get a reasonable solution. We do him no avours exposing him to huge court costs where he may lose everything. You may call that bottle-less, it's actually common sense.

Your opinion is as valuable as anyone elses, but remember we're here to help posters, not expose them to high risk strategies.

Amen.

WE take the risks.....we don't advise others to do what we would. Sorry Ian, if you don't get the difference, I wish you the best in life.

Nobody in their right mind makes a guinea pig out of a genuine user who wants to live their life and put this behind them. If you are prepared to, you don't belong on forums like these.

Put yourself where you mouth is. That's the code.

[IanM]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

Ed, the easiest way is not always the right way and if the alternative, however much people may disagree, is not proposed as an option how do you know if the OP would take the easy or hard way? They are the ones with all the evidence in front of them to be able to judge for themselves.

The banks are sat there doing as they like as if they are immune to the laws of this country, backed up by armies of solicitors, and as yet nobody dare accuse them of anything even though many people have nothing left to lose because of them.

As for putting myself where my mouth is you'll just have to wait and hope i decide to tell the full story on here when i am allowed to but just so you know, i have spent 10 years investigating a firm of bent solicitors and have enough evidence to prove that certain lenders, brokers, financial advisers, estate agents etc have conspired to commit mortgage fraud and money laundering to line their own pockets at the expense of ordinary people, which is why i keep telling people to look at every possibility however outrageous other people may think it is.

At the beginning i could have just walked away and got on with my life but then i thought, if they could do that to me how many others have they done it to?, ones that weren't able to stand up for themselves or know how to obtain the evidence that they had been ripped off, so i carried on digging even though the old boys network stretches far and wide and has ways of making your life difficult unless you back off and drop any accusations of wrongdoing.

Over 20 firms of solicitor, even with the evidence in front of them, told me there was nothing i could do and i should just walk away, which is typical, but i am not the sort to walk away when i know there is something dodgy going on and will fight the battles even if people or businesses think they are above the law.

Telling people their only option is to pay up and walk away is, and never will be, the only option open to them, that is doing the banks job for them. If they have an alternative they can consider, investigate and then choose to pay up and walk away then fair enough they have made an informed decision on what is best for them and nobody can criticize their choice but to give them only one solution is wrong.

I did start to believe i was in the wrong place on this forum but your comments have proved that i may have a place here after all, thank you.

Amen.

WE take the risks.....we don't advise others to do what we would. Sorry Ian, if you don't get the difference, I wish you the best in life.

Nobody in their right mind makes a guinea pig out of a genuine user who wants to live their life and put this behind them. If you are prepared to, you don't belong on forums like these.

Put yourself where you mouth is. That's the code.

[labman]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

If you have all that evidence, I strongly suggest you contact Celestine via pm who, I'm pretty sure, would be prepared to open an 'out of sight' place for you to share it and get help with it.

You state, "I have spent 10 years investigating a firm of bent solicitors and have enough evidence to prove that certain lenders, brokers, financial advisers, estate agents etc have conspired to commit mortgage fraud and money laundering to line their own pockets at the expense of ordinary people."

That's a huge statement. Why have you done nothing with this evidence? If you have enough to prove this (your words, not mine), surely this should be raised as a significant issue through the powers that be.

As I said above, if this evidence exists, and I've no cause to doubt you, contact Celestine and let's get something done about it. Until I see hard evidence to convince me otherwise, I stick by my statement though, and don't think the OP should consider court as they'll lose. Accepting a contractual rate makes much more sense in this particular case.

[IanM]

Re: Banks wants a charging order on my property

The OP has the benefit of everyone's advice and will make the decision that is best for him when the time comes but he has every right to consider whether the bank have acted in the wrong way and whether or not he has cause to make an official complaint or claim before he just gives in to their demands without questioning their motives.

For example, if they knew his business was struggling should they have encouraged him to take out the loan without even asking for security at the time? and should they now have the right to demand security?

Whatever the OP decides to do i hope he will return and let us know the outcome.