TV license officer visit

[smartgirl]

Hi

It never rains but it pours!

I just got a visit from a TV licensing officer. My license ran out at the end of August apparently, although I was not aware of this. I'm still shell shocked that I was made to feel like a "real criminal" and half expected the guy to get his handcuffs out! I have just fallen behind on 2 payments but Its left me feeling like I just mugged someone. I've never been in trouble with the law in my life. I'm a single mum with a 17 year old son and have never avoided paying anyone. I believed that what I had paid would take me up until next year as I was paying twice the usual monthly payments.

After reading some forums I realise how honest/naive I am as I allowed him through the communal door, opened the door to my own flat and answered questions as to what TV I had and what channel I was watching. I thought if I explained that I had fallen behind on two payments he would accept payment at the end of the month (as I'm expecting a bit of overtime money and was going to pay the whole £145 on 28th) but I was read my rights and it doesn't matter how many times you see it on TV it doesn't prepare you for hearing them being read to yourself.

What I really want to know is if I will be prosecuted and is this the same as receiving a summons. If I am prosecuted I will definitely lose my job as I to have a CRB check every few years.

Can anyone advise.

[bluebottle]

Re: TV license officer visit

Did this moron produce any form of lawful authority, such as a warrant card? These idiots from TVL are employed by a private company called Capita PLC. They are employees of a private company. They are NOT, repeat, NOT law enforcement officers. The only persons who can caution you are law enforcement officers carrying a warrant card. These include: police officers, customs officers, environmental health officers, health and safety inspectors employed by local authorities and HSE, water bailiffs and enforcement officers employed by the Environment Agency, trading standards officers, HMRC officers and UK Border Agency officers. There are others, but to the best of my knowledge and belief, this does not include Capita PLC acting on behalf of TVL.

From what you say, it sounds very much like they have overstepped the mark. What they have done sounds more like intimidation which, potentially, is an offence under the Public Order Act 1986 (Causing Intentional Alarm, Distress or Harassment).

First thing tomorrow morning, ring TVL and sort out a new licence. I would also make a formal complaint about the conduct of these Capita PLC employees. In the first instance, complaint to -

Operations Director
TV Licensing
BRISTOL
BS98 1TL

If Capita PLC fob you off or don't take it seriously, escalate it to -

Head of Revenue Management
BBC TV Licensing
Room 4436
BBC White City
201 Wood Lane
LONDON
W12 7TS

After that, you need to complaint to the BBC Trust which oversees the whole of the BBC, including TV Licensing.

[enquirer]

Re: TV license officer visit

My license ran out at the end of August apparently ...

I believed that what I had paid would take me up until next year as I was paying twice the usual monthly payments.

I thought if I explained that I had fallen behind on two payments he would accept payment at the end of the month (as I'm expecting a bit of overtime money and was going to pay the whole £145 on 28th)

This is a little confusing. Perhaps if you could explain the timeline and specify the payments?

[smartgirl]

Re: TV license officer visit

This is a little confusing. Perhaps if you could explain the timeline and specify the payments?

Why, do you work for them?

[bluebottle]

Re: TV license officer visit

I think you'll find Enquirer is trying to help you sort this out. If you've paid more than required, TVL have seriously fouled-up.

[Esio Trot]

Re: TV license officer visit

DThe only persons who can caution you are law enforcement officers carrying a warrant card. These include: police officers, customs officers, environmental health officers, health and safety inspectors employed by local authorities and HSE, water bailiffs and enforcement officers employed by the Environment Agency, trading standards officers, HMRC officers and UK Border Agency officers. There are others, but to the best of my knowledge and belief, this does not include Capita PLC acting on behalf of TVL.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you here regarding Cautions.

Cautions can be, and are, used by all sorts of people - including me - that are not law enforcement officers. However (other than the common law power of Citizens Arrest) I do agree with you that there has to be provision in statute for a person to be subject to arrest.

It is a shame that the OP didn't realise at the time that the TV Licence chap had no power of entry. She could have shut the door in him and that would have been an end of the matter. It would be unusual for a prosecution not to follow - it makes Capita's figures look good.

I agree that the OP should make formal complaint - pragmatically, that is the only way that a prosecution (and a criminal record) can be avoided.

[bluebottle]

Re: TV license officer visit

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you here regarding Cautions.

Cautions can be, and are, used by all sorts of people - including me - that are not law enforcement officers. However (other than the common law power of Citizens Arrest) I do agree with you that there has to be provision in statute for a person to be subject to arrest.

Could you enlighten us as to your status, please? What is commonly-known as "Citizen's Arrest" is now covered by Section 24A, Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Before that, it was covered by Section 2, Criminal Law Act 1967 (as amended by Criminal Law Act 1977).

[miliitant]

Re: TV license officer visit

TVL inspectors are employees of Capita, and are paid a basic salary with commission for each licence evader they catch or licence that they sell.

A TVL employee has no additional legal rights beyond that of any member of the public

A TVL employee may attempt to "administer a caution" to you. Although this sounds intimidating, it is quite different from a police caution.

To "administer a caution" to someone, in the general sense, simply means to inform them of their rights.

A TVL employee is entitled to administer a caution to you, however you are perfectly entitled to administer a caution to them simply by repeating their words back to them.

As with administering a caution, anyone is free to interview anyone else in accordance with PACE. To do so simply means that they are following the same rules that a police officer would, and does not give you any additional authority

If presented with a caution by a TVL employee, and informed that you will be questioned in accordance with PACE, you may wish to request your "free and independent legal advice".

Access to this is required under PACE, although as a TVL employee is not a police officer they have no requirement to provide it (however if they do not, they are no longer questioning you in accordance with PACE).

[Esio Trot]

Re: TV license officer visit

Could you enlighten us as to your status, please?

My status regarding cautions is that I am involved in the lending of money. Sometimes applicants obtain, or attempt to obtain, money by deception when completing the application forms.

Our local constabulary will not pursue these, so the company has a policy of operating its own interview under caution process and where intent is proved of pursuing this through the courts where appropriate.

[miliitant]

Re: TV license officer visit

see above on the status of tv licence inspectors

your authority ESIO TROT fall under the same remit

[wales01man]

Re: TV license officer visit

Im sure the TVL man is trained in what to do and say from the OPs post we can see she allowed him in no firced entry the only way forward for them would i think to plead mitigation to the TVL people and same if it goes to court reading local court reports it looks like most are convicted fined orderd to pay costs an victim charge winning you case in court seems unlikely sorry to be so blunt but we can all see TVL are gods to magistrates and nearl always win

[bluebottle]

Re: TV license officer visit

My status regarding cautions is that I am involved in the lending of money. Sometimes applicants obtain, or attempt to obtain, money by deception when completing the application forms.

Our local constabulary will not pursue these, so the company has a policy of operating its own interview under caution process and where intent is proved of pursuing this through the courts where appropriate.

And what legislation are you relying on to conduct these interviews under caution? You might wish to bear in mind that I am a retired police officer and have studied law since retiring.

[miliitant]

Re: TV license officer visit

interview under caution esio trot

i think you may be opening yourself up to unlawful detention, detaning people when you have no lawful authority, implying you have powers when you do not (gestapo tactics)

i am sure blubottle will correct me if i am wrong but this is well dodgy ground you are on

[labman]

Re: TV license officer visit

Deleted

[bluebottle]

Re: TV license officer visit

TVL inspectors are employees of Capita, and are paid a basic salary with commission for each licence evader they catch or licence that they sell.

A TVL employee has no additional legal rights beyond that of any member of the public

A TVL employee may attempt to "administer a caution" to you. Although this sounds intimidating, it is quite different from a police caution. They tend to use that used by the police to make it sound official. It's well-rehearsed, but the muppets use it inappropriately and incorrectly which, to someone who works or has worked in law enforcement or in the law, sticks out like a sore thumb and shows the muppets up for what they are - halfwitted bullies.

To "administer a caution" to someone, in the general sense, simply means to inform them of their rights.

A TVL employee is entitled to administer a caution to you, however you are perfectly entitled to administer a caution to them simply by repeating their words back to them. I'm going to look into that. To the best of my knowledge and belief, a Capita employee has no lawful authority to enforce the law and, therefore, the administering of any caution or anything resembling a caution, as prescribed under Criminal Justice legislation, could be construed as intimidation or even harassment.

As with administering a caution, anyone is free to interview anyone else in accordance with PACE. To do so simply means that they are following the same rules that a police officer would, and does not give you any additional authority. Subject to confirmation, to the best of my knowledge and belief, this may not be the case. Other than those charged with upholding the law and holding a warrant, who are legally-required to comply with PACE, anyone not being so authorised interviewing another person is not required to comply with PACE, but the person being interviewed is at liberty to refuse to participate in any such interview and to leave at any time.

If presented with a caution by a TVL employee, and informed that you will be questioned in accordance with PACE, you may wish to request your "free and independent legal advice". I would strongly advise that any Capita employee attempting this should be challenged to produce evidence of lawful authority. It is quite likely they would be unable to produce such evidence. Again, I would say that any such statement would amount to intimidation.

Access to this is required under PACE, although as a TVL employee is not a police officer they have no requirement to provide it (however if they do not, they are no longer questioning you in accordance with PACE). To the best of my knowledge and belief, Capita employees working for TVL have not been conferred any statutory powers.

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