Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

[jsmith589]

Hi, I am looking for some advice on our rights regarding the following:
I live with my brother and mother.
Over the past 9 or so months, my brother has taken out various loans (from awful companies like Wonga which was on Watchdog the other evening), he has also been fined on various occasions by the DVLA and police for no tax, mot etc.

Rather than address these issues, he has ignored them at let them get worse and worse. Despite the constant persistence of both my mother and me, he has lied to us telling us it was all in hand. He has not been home now for around 2 weeks, choosing to stay with friends, etc. We discovered the reasons why on Friday when bailifs came banging on the door. We were not in but they left an a4 sheet demanding full payment of £390 for no tax on car dating back several months. If my brother does not pay the full sum, they will be coming back next week to remove goods.

My brother has no money, and no assets (his room is literally like a squat). Whereas I have considerable assets (i.e. computers, large tv etc etc).
My mother and I are extremely concerned that when the bailiffs re-visit, they will want to take some of our items seeing as my brother has nothing of value. I don't have all of the receipts for my items, nor does my mother. Where do we stand on matters like this? I will be at work all week and don't have the time to just drop things and come flying back home when the bailiffs should come knocking. Are they allowed to just take anything? If so, how can I prevent this when I can't prove that I own everything in the house?
Everything I own, is locked in my own room which is alarmed, but from a bailiff's point of view, he would maybe think my brother has moved anything of value into the locked room.

Any advice would be really helpful

[bluebottle]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

Firstly, the bailiffs cannot take property that does not belong to a debtor. Even if they tried to it would be illegal. Get a Statutory Declaration sworn at a high street solicitor that the items in your home belong to you and your mother. Both you and your mother should swear Statutory Declarations listing the items you individually own. Under no circumstances allow the bailiffs entry and keep all doors and windows locked. Move any motor vehicles well away from your home. Bailiffs see these as easy pickings.

[jsmith589]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

Firstly, the bailiffs cannot take property that does not belong to a debtor. Even if they tried to it would be illegal. Get a Statutory Declaration sworn at a high street solicitor that the items in your home belong to you and your mother. Both you and your mother should swear Statutory Declarations listing the items you individually own. Under no circumstances allow the bailiffs entry and keep all doors and windows locked. Move any motor vehicles well away from your home. Bailiffs see these as easy pickings.

Bluebottle, thanks for taking the time to respond to my post.
I am going to make some enquiries about the Statutory Declaration form you have suggested tomorrow with our local solicitors. From what I can see on google, it seems quite inexpensive.
We have helped my brother as much as we can, on Friday we even paid off one of his demands (£390) to a company called Marston. But now more have come and we are not in a financial position to continue bailing him out.
We will ensure we keep all doors and windows closed. My mother was thinking of putting a sign on the front door saying that he is currently not living here, and listing addresses we know he stays at.

My only concern is with a Statutory Declaration, how will the bailiffs know we have this? Say they come when we are out? Can they break the door down and take things? If we are not there, they might not know we have the form you suggest.

Thanks again for your invaluable help.

[bluebottle]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

Bailiffs are not allow to force entry without authority from a court. The police will ask to see written authority before allowing them to do so, but be aware that Marstons are well-schooled in the dark art of deception, i.e. lying to the police. They are well-known for it. Once you have the Statutory Declarations signed (make sure you have a number of copies signed), you hand or send a copy each to whichever bailiff company is involved. An SD costs £5-£10. It might be a good idea for you and your mother to also each swear an SD to the effect that your brother no longer lives at the address you currently live at. These, too, should be handed/sent to the bailiff company involved.

[jsmith589]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

Blue bottle, thanks again for your post.
I often see your posts in threads, you are a very very helpful forum member, I really appreciate your help.
Getting an SD to show my brother no longer lives at the address is a very good idea, however I am concerned that my mother may give in and let him back. It is very upsetting for her as she obviously wants to help him sort himself out but this is not something he seems too interested in.
I will see if I can get an SD for our property to start with. Only catch from what I read is that we both need to physically be there to do it and I am often at work until 6.30-7pm miles from home. Will see what I can do.
Do we need to write up an SD or will the solicitors do that?

Thanks again for your words of wisdom

[Celestine]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

Even if your mum weakens and allows your brother to return, the bailiffs cannot take YOUR possessions.

Who actually owns the property by the way?

You said in your earlier post that you had paid the debt of £390 to Marstons, (the bailiff) so how come your expecting more bailiff activity?

[jsmith589]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

Hi, thanks for your post.
The house is council rented unfurnished.
Sorry, maybe I did not word my post correctly.....
We paid his debt to Marston on Friday evening (390) after a bailiff visited the house.
But on Saturday morning, a further two demands came via Royal Mail, one from Marston, one from another (can't remember name) demanding full payment within 7 days of letter date or bailiffs will be coming. With the £390 already paid, we would be looking at just over £1000.
On top of this, my mother has found another demand from Marston for in excess of £600 for a T Mobile contract.

He has been hiding the letters, or scruffing them up and putting in bin. He seems to think if he ignores the demands, they will give up and forget about it all.
We have never had debt problems before in the family so have no experience, and we just can't afford to dish out anything more to help him. A very sad state of affairs.

Even if your mum weakens and allows your brother to return, the bailiffs cannot take YOUR possessions.

Who actually owns the property by the way?

You said in your earlier post that you had paid the debt of £390 to Marstons, (the bailiff) so how come your expecting more bailiff activity?

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

I may be able to help you with the Tmobile contract.
When you next see him, call Tmobile together and find out what the debt was for, when it was taken out, how long for.. ask if the contract was correctly terminated (30 days notice or did he just stop paying?).
you cannot find this out without him, as the account holder needs to pass DPA, ask to speak to the Collections dept about payment options, and as long as he says you can do this for him, they cannot argue.
He does need to give notice to cancel himself.
If the account is in operation, ie he is still contracted to them, ask about lowering his monthly tarrif by £5 a month until the end of his contract, most companies will do this, and ask for a 3rd Party Authorisation form to be sent to you. Again this is a free service. it just means if anything else happens you wont need him there in future.
Once I know the reason for the big bill i can help you more.

P

[bluebottle]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

I would get the SDs done asap. Even if it means taking time off work. Could you post up a list of the creditors to whom your brother owes money, please? This would make it easier for us to advise you.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

You can write the stautory declaration yourself/selves, but you need to take it to a solicitor to swear it. This doesn't take long or cost much. It doesn't need to be a solicitor near the property, you could go in your lunch break.

I agree with BlueBottle it is worth doing this even if you have to take time off work. Once you have this sworn declaration, a coy cna be faxed to the bailiffs and/or creditors involved. You can often sned a fax from a public library or a post office. It is in any case better not to use your own phone number.

If your brother joined this forum, he could get advice about these debts and fines.

[jsmith589]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

Hi there,
Thanks for your posts.
As far as I am aware he currently owes money to:
The Court Services for non payment of car tax and a fine relating to driving with no MOT. (Marston)
TMobile (Marston)
Quick Quid
Wonga


I think this is the lot.
Pigs are more likely to fly than my brother join this forum, although a very good suggestion of yours. He is completely uninterested in his debts and has an excuse for everything. He says he can't ring them as he has no credit, he can't see citizens advice as they don't have a convenient appointment. He refuses to answer any calls (even from me), saying he can't hear it ring - all lies. He is just completely ignoring the matter. I had suggested to my mother many months ago that she takes the difficult decision of throwing him out as we could update the tennancy and would have written proof that he no longer lives with us. But she didn't have the heart to.

I agree with what you say regarding the Statutory Declaration. How easy is it for me to write? Do I just do it on word and include my name, address, and what I own in my room?
When you swear these things in, do you need more than one person? I am thinking, if I went into a solicitors near work and did mine, my mother could do her own back home. I would love to take a bit of time off of work, but they will not pay me for it, and I have just had to cough up hundreds this weekend to bail my brother out once with the bailifs, I doubt I will see this money again, so don't fancy taking time off and loosing yet more money unless really necessary.

You can write the stautory declaration yourself/selves, but you need to take it to a solicitor to swear it. This doesn't take long or cost much. It doesn't need to be a solicitor near the property, you could go in your lunch break.

I agree with BlueBottle it is worth doing this even if you have to take time off work. Once you have this sworn declaration, a coy cna be faxed to the bailiffs and/or creditors involved. You can often sned a fax from a public library or a post office. It is in any case better not to use your own phone number.

If your brother joined this forum, he could get advice about these debts and fines.

[Celestine]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

Please get both yours and your mums Stat Decs done immediately. Stop supporting your brother financially, otherwise he will take longer to learn the harsh realities.

Yours and your mums possessions are untouchable and even if your useless brother is cohabiting, his debt problems should not become yours.

Soon he will be unable to borrow anything, unable to drive, hassled by bailiffs etc, so soon he will have to grow up and learn to deal with his own problems instead of relying on his good hearted mum and brother to clear up his mess.

[bluebottle]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

Hi there,
Thanks for your posts.
As far as I am aware he currently owes money to:
The Court Services for non payment of car tax and a fine relating to driving with no MOT. (Marston)
TMobile (Marston)
Quick Quid
Wonga


I think this is the lot.
Pigs are more likely to fly than my brother join this forum, although a very good suggestion of yours. He is completely uninterested in his debts and has an excuse for everything. He says he can't ring them as he has no credit, he can't see citizens advice as they don't have a convenient appointment. He refuses to answer any calls (even from me), saying he can't hear it ring - all lies. He is just completely ignoring the matter. I had suggested to my mother many months ago that she takes the difficult decision of throwing him out as we could update the tennancy and would have written proof that he no longer lives with us. But she didn't have the heart to.

I agree with what you say regarding the Statutory Declaration. How easy is it for me to write? Do I just do it on word and include my name, address, and what I own in my room?
When you swear these things in, do you need more than one person? I am thinking, if I went into a solicitors near work and did mine, my mother could do her own back home. I would love to take a bit of time off of work, but they will not pay me for it, and I have just had to cough up hundreds this weekend to bail my brother out once with the bailifs, I doubt I will see this money again, so don't fancy taking time off and loosing yet more money unless really necessary.

The only creditor that could attract problems is HMCTS (H.M. Courts & Tribunals Service). However, as both Springer Spaniel and Celestine have said, you do need to get the Statutory Declarations done asap. I would strongly recommend you have sufficient copies notarised to send to each creditor, as well as Marston Group, as well as keeping some as spare copies just in case your brother has run up anymore debts you and your mother don't know about.

The other three creditors are strictly civil debts and should be returned to the respective creditors advising that your brother has no goods that can be seized. Marston Group certainly have no right of entry whatsoever in respect of these debts. They would have to seek authority from HMCTS to force entry to your home and HMCTS are loathe to authorise forcible entry unless a fine defaulter is persistently avoiding payment of a fine.

[labman]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

Do the Stat Decs (there's an example on the bailiff stickies which could be amended, or a Google will bring one up), then throw him to the wolves. Feel free to tell him where the local CAB is, or the number of Payplan, CCCS etc.... but stop helping him.

You can then rest easy in your home, and he can stop running and start growing up.

[Sapphire]

Re: Family Member has run up large debts, what do we do?

Yep, I agree with those sentiments, the more you help him the more he will do it, stop the help, do tough love and make the bugger grow up and face the consequences.