Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

[HateTheGovernment]

Hi all, I popped in the bank today to get a 13k loan to my surprise i was refused! Saying i had something outstanding. so i went back home to check my credit rating and found out i had a old t-mobile contract that i owed £11. defaulting every month for a year. I remember having a lot of problems with the device taking it back once to tmobile and twice to nokia for repair. Also alot of phone complaint calls, overall around 12 weeks being with no phone but paying 30 a month (what a joke). The last month of my contract i just closed my DD and got another contract. Anything I can do to repair my credit quickly or Get Back at those BAS***DS........

Chris

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

From a legal point of veiw.. not a great deal.

Unfortunatly it states in the small print of your contract that a period of 30 days, written or verbal (im not sure with Tmobile i worked for 02 and it was written) is required to cancel a contract, unless you gain a PAC code and register it with a new phone provider within 30 days.

The company has a 28 day period in which they must repair the handset, out of that time it is down to manafacturers warrenty, and there is nothing in the contract which states they must give you a new replacement handset, this is done as a good will gesture and is normally a refurb!

Theres not a lot you can do to get back at them, as legally they are in the right, but im sure that someone better qualified legally can advise on repairing your credit rating. Unfortunatly i saw a lot of this with 02, people just stopping the DD when the contract was ongoing, legally a company can just keep rolling the contract on, unless you provide them with a request for termination.

[labman]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

Trying to get defaults removed from one's CRF is a case of persistence, and you are likely to need to be extremely persistent. I will try to remember to post up later an initial template letter for this, apologies in advance if I forget.

Meanwhile search the forums for default removal, the topic has arisen many times before.

[bluebottle]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

From a legal point of veiw.. not a great deal.

Unfortunatly it states in the small print of your contract that a period of 30 days, written or verbal (im not sure with Tmobile i worked for 02 and it was written) is required to cancel a contract, unless you gain a PAC code and register it with a new phone provider within 30 days.

The company has a 28 day period in which they must repair the handset, out of that time it is down to manafacturers warrenty, and there is nothing in the contract which states they must give you a new replacement handset, this is done as a good will gesture and is normally a refurb!

Theres not a lot you can do to get back at them, as legally they are in the right, but im sure that someone better qualified legally can advise on repairing your credit rating. Unfortunatly i saw a lot of this with 02, people just stopping the DD when the contract was ongoing, legally a company can just keep rolling the contract on, unless you provide them with a request for termination.

There is something about rolling contracts in the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regs 1999 and I wouldn't mind betting charging someone for access to the network when they haven't got the means to access it is covered, too.

If the OP was provided with a handset as part of the contract and was without a handset, but still being charged for access to the network when he could not access, due to T-Mobile not providing a replacement, it is for T-Mobile to prove this is fair and reasonable. In all consumer contracts, the onus is on the provider of the contract to prove terms are fair and reasonable.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

it actually states in the contract that after 28 day the handset will be replaced with a refurb, and that this is done as a goodwill gesture only, as they sometimes give offers like early upgrades ect to cover themselves. They also state that ending the DD is not an indication of end of contract.

Also, all upgrade staff, and retention staff MUST give the terms and conditons of contract and disconnection verbally on the phone, i can quote them if you want i did it that many times, and there is no legal requirement for the company to tel you your contract is up for renewal, this is your responsibilty unfortunately.

In the case of a complaint, the customer must fully follow the complaints proceedure of any mobile company, and if no immediate disconnection is set, theres not a great deal that can be done to argue about it. You have to think of Old Mrs Lady whos had the same phone for 10 years and is quite happy, and sometimes the companies will suggest a credit of say half the phones value and tell you to purchase a cheap new phone if you cant be upgraded early.

I always argued a letter should be sent to the customers reminding them their upgrade was due, but was told logistically this would be a nightmare and it would cost the company millions in new phones. So if the OP didnt follow the proceedures correctly, or give his 30days notice it is the OP who is in breach of contract not Tmobile.

[teaboy2]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

Point is that a phone contract is fixed term, it can only change to rolling contract with if unequivical verbal or written authroisation from the other party. They simply can not change a fixed term contract to rolling contract without permission and the fact the DD was cancelled which T-Mobile, who will have informed off by the Consumers bank, is evidence they did not have permission from the consumer to change the contract terms to that of a rolling contract. Whether there is a term in the fixed term contract allowing them to do so or not i don't know, but such a term would be deemed unlawful just like the early termination fee for contract over 12 months with no right to cancel after the intial cancellation period was found to be unfair and unlawful.

Bacsically once the fixed term contract ends thats it contract no longer exists and permission from the consumer is required for a rolling contract to be in place, and sorry but under contract law, simply inserting the sim and using the phone is not an unequivical verbal or written acceptence to the terms of a rolling contract or that of a fixed term contract either. So if the phone company wants to change the fixed term contract or swap it to a rolling contract then its their responsability to get permission from the consumer to do so. Its not different to employers requiring permission from employees to change the terms of their employment contracts!

I had the same argument about inserting sim and using phone being deemed as acceptance of contract terms, with Lowells and Hutchinson 3g for 1 of 2 phones sent to me as unsolicited goods. Where i sold both as per my right to dispose of unsolicited goods as i see fit under distance selling regulations. Because 1 person i sold one of the phones too then used the sim card that came with it, Lowells and hutchinson say entering the sim card and using the phone was my acceptence to their terms of contract. I pointed out to them that acceptence under contract law requires an unquivical verbal or written communication of acceptance, and simply inserting a sim and using a phone is not an unequivical verbal or written communication of acceptance, especially when they can not prove who the hell entered the sim card and used the phone in the first place!! I invited them to court, geuss what - They refused and 13 months on they are still apparently investigating whilst lowells owes me over £750 in administration fees for dealing with their letters and phone calls. Yet they still refuse to remiove the unlawful and inaccurate default on my credit file!

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

Yes Teaboy there is a clause.

Basic T&Cs of the contracts are that for telephone contracts there is a 14 day cool off period, including dislke of phones, after that a 28day fault repair, then take it to the shop. The contract cannot be upgraded until the last 30 days of the contract, there is a 9 month wait before you can downgrade the tarrif, the contract can be cancelled in writing (or verbally depending on company policy) in the last 30 days of contract, if the company does is not informed that cancellation or upgrade is required the contract will roll over until suchtime as the company recieve 30days notice of request for upgrade.
All replacements are subject to availabilty and can be a refurbished handset.

Sorry im sad I know, but its in my notes on the laptop for when i used to work at 02
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Forgot to add, the same are for store contracts, but without the 14 day cool off

[teaboy2]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

Yes but such a term would be likely be deemed unfair just like the early termination fees in contracts over 12 months with no right to cancel after the first cancellation period were deemed unfair. They would be unfair as its unreasonable to expect a person to cancel a contract when it is ment to expire itself anway. So in order for a rolling contract to come into place the fixed term contract has to have expired and their was a written or verbal communication from the consumer accepting the terms of the NEW rolling contract, which legally is a completely different type/form of contract and therefore seperate from that of the fixed term contract before it. You simply can not rely on authorisation given in acceptence of a previous contract as acceptence to a NEW and completely different form of contract. Hence why i said employers have to seek authrisation from employees to change the terms of their employment contract, as the same applies if your wanting to replace an existing contract with a completley new or different form or contract.

Therefore the responsability would lie with the phone company to get authorisation in writing or verbally from the consumer to change the terms of the fixed term contract to that of a rolling contract prior to the expiration of the original contract.

Bear in mind a fixed term contract is completely seperate form of contract to that of a rolling contract and one can not become the other just become the other has ended. They are basically 2 different contracts, both of which require written or verbal communication of acceptence to the terms of said contracts prior to the contract being valid.

P.s. you also have the question as to whether such a term was individually negoatiated too. As it is not then it is also likely to be deemed unfair.

Basically the phone companies and knowingly expoliting the fact that most consumers will forget the date in which the original contract is to end and therefore will not beaware that the original contract has ended and therefore not been able to benefit from being able to cancel within 30 days of the end of the contract. As such the phone companies are using such term in the contract to expolit the consumers forgetfulness to make a finanical gain at the expense of the consumer prior to the consumer realising that the contract expired, yet at the same time hoping the consumer does not realise the contract expired.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

it is, both.

I cant get in to the T-mobile t&cs as im not a customer, but here are the 02 ones.. conned them off a friend when i first saw this thread just in case, they are enclosed in the box when you purchase a phone, and clipped to the contract in store.

you can get them at anytime on line for all companies, and i can gaurentee you that they are given out at upgrade point, normally accompanied by here comes the boring bit!

O2 | Mobile Terms and Conditions - Our Latest Pay Monthly Mobile Agreement

sowwy, i wish i could say that its illegal, but its actually written in to your contract!

[teaboy2]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

Puffrose - Yes i know you can get see the term in the contract, but just because its in there it doesn't make it a fair term in contract law! Chances are a court would rule the term unfair and therefore void, if it was ever questioned in court.

So just because its in the contract, it does not make it legal or fair when it comes down to legalities.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

i know its not a fair system, and i HATED telling people you havent actually cancelled the contract, but as its been agreed to theres not a great deal you can do when it comes to "getting even" with the company!

I've been on both ends of it, and yes, it sucks.. but its also a legally binding contract for both parties, and if the OP didnt cancel the contract correctly, and he had hes t&cs at purchase point, i cant think of anyway to help bar say, im sorry, but they have you here.

Sorry if this seems negative or anti the OP, i dont mean it to be, or to come across as a smart alec, its just.. as i say it it was my job for a few years. I have no legal knowlege, sometimes im lost on these threads. I'm passing on the knowlegde i have of these issues in the hope i can save the OP time and money, as legally he broke contract, not T-mobile.

[teaboy2]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

Puffrose i doesn't matter if its agreed to or not, Judges couldn't careless about whether it was agreed or not. There is a fairness test and reasonableness test that they most follow to ascertain if a Term is fair or unfair. If its unfair then in the eyes of the law it is VOID and can not be enforced, nor can the company benefit from such term in the contract as to do so would be unlawful and likely fraud if a judge has already deemed it an unfair term. Even if it was a different contract between the company and a different consumer where the term was deemed by a judge as unfair, it would been deemed unfair and void in all contracts of that type made between that company and the companies consumers!

The above is why the majority of companies also have the following term in their terms and conditions - Note this taken from my own companies terms and conditions and revelant part is highlighted in red:

14. General

If any court or competent authority decides that any of the provisions of these terms are invalid, unlawful or unenforceable to any extent, the term will, to that extent only, be severed from the remaining terms, which will continue to be valid to the fullest extent permitted by law.
If we fail, at any time while these terms are in force, to insist that you perform any of your obligations under these terms, or if we do not exercise any of our rights or remedies under these terms, then that will not mean that we have waived such rights or remedies and will not mean that you do not have to comply with those obligations. If we do waive a breach by you, then this does not mean that we cannot take action against you in the future for any other breach of this contract.
A person who is not party to these Terms shall not have any rights under, or in connection with them, under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999.
These terms and the contract between us will be governed by English law and the English courts or by the jurisdiction governing where your property is if you are a consumer resident outside England and Wales.

The above is bascally a legal disclaimer protecting our rights (and that of the consumers) under the contract if any term of the contract between my company and the customer or website user is deemed unfair, invalid or unlawful - Therefore even if such term is severed from the contract after the term is deemed unlawful, invalid or unfair the contract itsel still remains in place minus the term that was deemed unfair, invalid or unlawful by the courts.

So even if the contract is legally binding the term itself may not be if it is deemed by a court as unlawful, unfair, invalid or uenforceable to any extent. Therefore whilst that term is severed from the contract the contract still remains legally binding but that particular term is no longer legally binding on either party of the contract.

[Shadowcat]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

Labman, if you get a chance later can you post up the 'removing defaults' initial letter.
Thanks.

[blackhorse]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

teaboy2 I have exactly the same problem as you with the same company 3g Hutchinson. My contract went onto rolling after the fixed term. I assumed it had ended, cancelled direct debit, credit file ruined, usual situation. Im just wondering how the court case is coming along as I will also be taking 3G HUTCHINSON to court.

cheers

[blackhorse]

Re: Credit report wrecked by T-Mobile

Hi Teaboy,

Lucky you that yours fell of your file so soon! =) mine however still has 5 years remaining.

After numerous letters Three agreed to remove my Default entirely saying it was too harsh. Wheyyy

HOWEVER have left the string of late payments which I didn't even know where being marked every month for a measly 31 pounds. Although this is a small achievement as I now have no defaults the account is still marked as 'Delinquent' as it recieved more than 3 late payments. Not as bad as a default but not great. The reason I didn't know about the late payments is because I moved address after the 18 month contract (which I thought had ended so no need to inform them of the change of address). After the 18 months I stopped the direct debit thinking all would be fine. After receiving my SAR request it seems Three did send me a late payment reminder letter to my address which If I had received I would have paid immediately. However as I had moved house I didn't receive it. I see from the SAR request they have my email address in their contact details however didn't choose to use this to contact me. If they had used my email address this I would have stopped the string of late payments there and then.

SO im going to try make a deal with them, they can keep the first late payment on my file as this was my fault for not reading the terms and conditions and realising that it went onto a rolling contract. (sigh). But they should remove the remaining string of late payments after this as they didn't contact me via email even though it was obvious what was happening. They should have done this!

Do you think this is a good method? Im not sure if 'legally' they have to use all my contact details to contact me so perhaps they didn't 'have' to email me and a letter to my old address is fine in the eyss of the law. However I feel they should have realised what was happening and tried to email me. I don't think Ill take it to court as I don't want to spend a year on this, however I wonder if three fail to play ball would the finanicial obudsman knock some sense into them?

Or a letter from my solicitor perhaps?

OR should I just base my defence on the 'OFT V Ashton Management services' case and insist ALL later payments should be removed as it shouldn't have gone onto a rolling contract within another written authorisation from me. (Although I feel this method will take some time).

Thanks for your help!