Arrow Global

[Suzisu]

I'm new here so please bear with me. I have a relatively small debt against me which seems to be causing me alot of problems but I don't agree with the debt so don't see why I should pay it. Am stuck on how to sort it though..here's the story:

In April 2008 i received a letter from SRJ Debt Recoveries stating that their client Phoenix have attempted to contact me on numerous occasions regarding a debt (I had never heard of them). I contacted them for more information and subsequently received a number of threatening phone calls from them. Eventually they told me the debt was from great universal and i should write to phoenix credit management.

I traced the debt to some goods I had bought at a different address in early 2006 but had not paid for. I had sent some stuff back and never received any statements from them. I was going through a divorce and in the process of moving so totally forgot about it. My email and phone numbers never changed and I had my post redirected, but still never had any contact from them. The current debt certainly did not match the original though. I got the details of my purchases from the email, some of which i had returned. I calculated the debt, added 10% interest per year and sent a letter to Phoenix explaining my understanding of the situation and sent a cheque in full and final settlement. Naively i had been advised that if I did that and they cashed the cheque then that would be the end.

I didn't hear anything and the cheque was cashed.

Then in October 2008 I received a letter from Wescot stating they had been instructed to collect the debt. I rang to explain, and they wrote again confirming I had raised a query and that all activity would be suspended whilst it was being investigated, and that "upon concluding our investigation, we will contact you again". Never heard anything!

In August 2010 I received a letter from Fredrickson international ltd about the debt. I sent them the "prove it" letter, explaining about the payment and dispute in 2008. I received no reply, and again, naively, assumed the silence meant end of!

5 months ago a company called Arrow Global Ltd recorded a default on my credit report. It is for the same amount as all the other claims (£136 - said it was small!), however I have had no correspondence and it is recorded against me at the address I lived at BEFORE I even purchased anything from great Universal.

This is now causing me credit rating problems, credit cards are increasing my standard interest rates and pulling back on credit limits

Where do I stand, and what can I do to sort this out. As i said, it seems so unfair that I may have to pay it to clear my name, when it's not even a debt from goods, but made up of charges the debt companies have made for tracing (unnecessary) and non-payment - when I have paid!!

Thanks if you managed to read this far!! Hope someone can help.

[teaboy2]

Re: Arrow Global

Whats the date of the Default they placed on your file?

Do you live in Scotland or England/Wales?

And what was the date you last made a payment on these goods if any payment?

[Suzisu]

Re: Arrow Global

Hi, the date of the default by Arrow on my credit report is 17/03/2008, but was only registered 5 months ago.

I am in England and the payment I made, to Phoenix, was in May 2008.

Thanks

[Gorang]

Re: Arrow Global

In addition to teaboy2 questions

Have you tried to contact the CRA or arrow about this?

[labman]

Re: Arrow Global

Catalogue Debts are often passed round the DCA's. The good news here to me seems that it has not been sold, but only assigned equitably to DCA's who try to collect from you before passing it back to Great Universal.

Arrow Global can be pretty unpleasant. I'd attack this from two different angles. Firstly I'd send a CCA request to Arrow Global to get them off your back (it is quite possible the original may not be able to be located with a catalogue debt).

Secondly I'd contact Great Universal and write a strong letter to them, enclosing proof of the payment you made expecting it to be in full and final settlement. I don't think there's much point dealing with the underlings on this one as they will not do anything. You need to go straight to the CEO, here is his personal e-mail address:

mark.newton-jones@shopdirect.com

[teaboy2]

Re: Arrow Global

Ok that was the full and final settlement offer then yes?

If so right to phoenix asking them to investigate why they passed on the full balance of a debt which you had made a full and final settlement offer on where they had accepted the cheque and the full final settlement by cashing the cheque. Inform them you will be reporting them to the ICO and OFT and may take legal action holding them liable for the actions of all 3 of the debt collection companies that have dealt with this account demanding the full balance since you made the full and final settlement that they phoenix accepted by cashing the cheque.

Also inform arrow of the full and final settlement you made to phoenix that phoenix accepted by cashing the cheque.

Did you pay for the goods via Great Universal only for GU to pass the account to phoenix despite you paying, or did you return the goods to GU prior to using them i.e. in original packaging?


Posts crossed with Gorangs and Labmans, but yes contact GU too and answer Gorangs question as well.

[Suzisu]

Re: Arrow Global

Hi,

Gordon - no I have not yet had any contact from or to Arrow. I did email the CRA about the low credit rating this was causing me, ie 1 default account out of 32 well managed accounts took my score to poor and only 1 star out of 5! and they just said I needed to contact arrow, and could put a note on their file.

Teaboy - the offer was in settlement to Phoenix as i thought they were part of GU. That amount has been taken off the original debt figure, bringing it down to £136 from £186. I sent the unwanted goods back in 2006, within days of ordering them. Then heard nothing for 2 years and they seem not to have acknowledged receipt of them. In moving I have lost any paperwork regarding any proof of return.

Labman - thanks for the GU email address.

I will write some letters tomorrow. Anything else I need to note ?

[teaboy2]

Re: Arrow Global

Hi,

Gordon - no I have not yet had any contact from or to Arrow. I did email the CRA about the low credit rating this was causing me, ie 1 default account out of 32 well managed accounts took my score to poor and only 1 star out of 5! and they just said I needed to contact arrow, and could put a note on their file.

Teaboy - the offer was in settlement to Phoenix as i thought they were part of GU. That amount has been taken off the original debt figure, bringing it down to £136 from £186. I sent the unwanted goods back in 2006, within days of ordering them. Then heard nothing for 2 years and they seem not to have acknowledged receipt of them. In moving I have lost any paperwork regarding any proof of return.

Labman - thanks for the GU email address.

I will write some letters tomorrow. Anything else I need to note ?

In that case, as you returned the goods then you are do not have to pay for them as such you owed nothing right from the start.

As such forget the DCA's and contact GU using the email Labman provided, telling them you have returned the goods as unwanted and therefore never owed anything for them. GU will have a paper trail and should still have a record of the goods being return. In form them you only made the full and final settlement to get the DCA's of your back. Remind them of the Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) Case Law that makes it clear they are liable for the actions of the Debt Collectors. Also state if you are not refunded in full for the amount you paid under duress, you may commence legal actions. Also if they do not instruct Arrow to remove the inaccurate Default on your Credit file, you will also claim against them for libel too - Give them 14 days to reply.

After that let us know what if any response you get as soon as you get it.

Heres a link to the Judgement for the case above that i referred to - http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2009/46.html

[Suzisu]

Re: Arrow Global

This has me wound up so I can't sleep lol

I did keep some of the goods, but they were paid for plus interest as a good will gesture in the "full and final settlement" letter to Phoenix.

I have been reading curlyben's advice where he writes a letter stating:

"As holders of a Consumer Credit Licence you are obliged to comply with the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines on Debt Collection. I would therefore be obliged if you would provide me with an explanation as to why you are attempting to collect on an alleged debt which was disputed with **BANK ** prior to your first contact with me, and has yet to be resolved.
As per OFT guidelines Section 2.8k "not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt."

Since this is considered an unfair practice and contrary to the OFT guidelines, you should consider this letter as a formal complaint, and provide me with a copy of your complaint resolution procedure.
I also require you to confirm that you will now comply with the OFT guidelines, and will not attempt any further collection activity whilst the dispute is unresolved.

Should you fail to provide me with the required undertaking within 7 days, I shall report your breach of the OFT guidelines to Trading Standards and the Financial Ombudsman Service."

Arrow have given me a default on a debt which was previously put into dispute by Westcot 3 years prior to them recording it on my file. Does this mean they have done that unlawfully?

Is there a quantifiable compensation claim for hardship caused by the low creditworthiness their default has caused?

[Suzisu]

Re: Arrow Global

Sorry, any more advice as to what I should write to Arrow...a) the prove it letter, or b) the unlawfulness of their actions?

thanks

[labman]

Re: Arrow Global

As far as Arrow are concerned you just want them off your back to leave you to sort it out with the OC.

A Prove It letter will delay them for a while, though Arrow are quite tenacious. A CCA will buy you a further fortnight. Ignoring them will buy you as much more time as you require. Remember they don't own this debt so can't take action against you without doing so with the OC.

Now Arrow are off your back I would still e-mail the CEO as I mentioned before and see if he can sort it out.

[Suzisu]

Re: Arrow Global

I've had a reply from shopdirect...not very helpful though!

Dear Mrs XXX

Thank you for taking the time to contact me with regards to your complaint.

From checking archived statements it is clear you opened your account in March 2006 at [address XXXX 8QS]

On 11th August 2006 an order was placed totalling £103 on Buy Now Pay June 2007. At the point of order you requested your items to be delivered to [adress XXXX 8HD].

As the address on your account remained at [address XXXX8QS] statements were issued to this address and in June 2007 the orders were charged to your account and we started to request payments. As no payments were received your account followed our normal collections process and was legally assigned to Phoenix Recoveries Limited on 26th March 2008. May I point out, any information on your credit file after this date, is the responsibility of Phoenix Recoveries. Please contact them direct to on 0800 652 6683.

With regards to your comments concerning your change of address, I did receive your email and would like to thank you for sending this to me. The email suggests that you had to click on “Contact Us” and “Change of Personal Details” to complete this request. The information provided does not clarify whether this was actioned.

I understand you have sent a full and final payment to Phoenix Recoveries Limited which has been cashed, despite this you are still being pursued for this debt. I would recommend you raise this with Phoenix as they are the legal holders of your account.

I have passed the information to our Executives Office who will arrange for a letter to be sent to you in due course.

Kindest regards


Gemma Pritchard
Customer Excellence -Aintree
Shop Direct Group


No mention of the goods I returned. I don't remember having to request delivery to another address, I moved from [address XXXX 8QS] beginning of March 2006 so why would I open a catalogue account and not order anything til August?

What do I do next? Have not contacted Phoenix, in fact I have never had any correspondence from them at all, even though I wrote to them and paid them.

Thanks

[labman]

Re: Arrow Global

I'd be inclined initially to write stating that you have never received a statement of account for your account which they are legally obliged tosend you. Could they please send one at their earliest convenience and if there is any outstanding balance on the account, please could they explain where this came from.

At least then it stops you forking out £10 on a SAR , and puts you in the picture as to what they think the state of play is on your account.

[Suzisu]

Re: Arrow Global

Hi labman

Sorry write to who? I'm totally confused now. Shopdirect are saying they aren't responsible anymore, yet it would seem the original debt they assigned to Phoenix was incorrect, Phoenix added charges for tracing me, which should not have been necessary, I paid Phoenix what I thought was owing and they cashed it, but then sold the "remainder" debt on to Wescot. Wescot agreed to investigate my dispute, but then passed the debt to Fredrickson without having resolved the dispute. Fredrickson also then passed it to Arrow ignoring my information to them that the account was in dispute. Arrow have recorded default against me without ever contacting me to say they were trying to recover a debt.

This all seems extremely dodgy to me, but where do I stand and which DCA do I got to first?

[labman]

Re: Arrow Global

What a beep mess for you!

Right let's go back to the beginning and think through this logically, step by step.

You purchased goods from GU on a Buy NowPay Later Scheme to the value of £103.

Regardless of who the goods went to, you kept some of the goods and returned the others for which, presumably, you have proof.

Later, following a letter from a recovery company, you paid a F&F sum + 10% interest to Phoenix which they cashed.

Beyond this, in my opinion you don't really need to go. They can have passed it to every DCA out there, but they are the ones responsible for cashing that cheque and they have had your money.

This leaves you with GU and Phoenix in the picture. GU have put it in writing to you that the debt was legally assigned to Phoenix. Unfortunately, it is unclear at present whether this assignment was Equitable (they were just trying to collect the money for GU) or Absolute (they bought the debt in its entirity off GU and therefore effectively became GU as far as you are concerned).

You then wrote a letter to Phoenix offering a full and final settlement, then later posted cheque for this which they cashed - hopefully with a letter stating it was in full and final settlement of AC No ABC123.

As they did not write back pretty much immediately (within two weeks at the very most) stating the cheque had only been cashed on account, then the contract is formed and your bill is discharged. You owe no further money. Full stop.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________




The problem is Phoenix being prats passed the debt on and it started doing the merry go round. This is not your problem! As long as you have proof of a letter going to Phoenix stating the cheque was in F&F against AC No ABC123 you have paid your debt. There is plenty of case law to back this up which I can give you if you wish.

If anyone other than GU or Phoenix have defaulted you it is illegal and should be removed. Ask them to remove it stating the debt has been paid in full to Phoenix. If they refuse, put a note on your credit file(doesn't do much good, but will make you feel better!) stating the debt is settled and will they remove the default (Was this a term of your F&F?)

If they won't, then contact the ICO (Information Commissioners Office) who are likely to order the default removal. Sadly it is a slow process, but one that has to be followed.

Finally, and importantly, anyone involved after Phoenix is only relevant to you from the point of view of getting a default removed for a debt you don't owe. I covered that in the paragraph above. Beyond that, refer them back to Phoenix who are the ones who have been paid and do not correspond with them anymore. Indeed there is no reason why, in your letter referring them back to Phoenix you cannot mention that any further communications will be viewed as harassment and you reserve the right to report them as such.

I hope this rather long post simplifies things:
Deal with GU &/or Phoenix re the payment
Deal with others re the default - one letter asking them to remove it and referring back to Phoenix - that is it.

DO NOT get drawn into any further protracted communications.