Hillesden DCA CCA request

[thewife666]

Hi , Im a new boy to the forum and am looking for some advice but before I start i'd just like to add I fully accept responsibility for for stupidity in getting myself into this mess.
A few years ago in got myself into a bit of a financial mess.I was over committed, everything was getting paid but i was struggling. I contacted a Debt management company and hid behing them. Big mistake. Eventually i took my head out of the sand a dealt with the problem head on.
I contacted all my debtors ,told them i was struggling but made offers to pay.I seemed to pick up a few extra debts on the way with DCA's jumping on the band wagon but started to make head way.
I contacted First plus , explained my situation and offered them £100. i got no response. Wrote to them and called them several times, nothing ! Out of the blue they wrote to me telling me I had to pay them £400 a month. If only I could afford that. I originally took a 10k loan with them and was paying 200 per month. Unfortunately I have no idea how much the DMC were paying them so I was unsure what was still owed.
I wrote back to them explained that i couldn't afford 400 but was willing to pay something. Once again no response. I chased again and again and got the standard "your file is with an other department" response.
2 years down the line i reveived threatening letters about court action from Hillesden.Apparently they had bought this debt. I offered them £100 a month because i cannot have a CCJ against me. I also asked them to supply me a copy of the CCA, I didn't go through the proper channels, but just asked for a copy. I was happy to pay my debt by just wanted to know who these people were. They could have ben anyone for all I knew .
Recently they have been on my case to pay them more. They demnded £600 lump sum and £280 per month. Im being very complient and told them I'd be happy to increase payments as soon as i get the CCA agreement. This time I used the 12+2 approach and attached my £1.
Today i received a response and im not quite sure what it means. This is what they wrote -

"We are still waiting for a copy of the CCa and will forward it to you.
If we are unable to forward the original copy we will surply you with the original we will supply a true copy which will comply with section 77-79."
Then this bit-
" we would like to bring your attention to the ruling in case of Mcguffick and RBS in relation to "what is considered enforcement" the judgement stated that the bringing of proceddings is not enforcement. It follows that demanding payment is a step taken prior to the commencment of proceedings and therefore not considered enforcement.

What does that mean ??

Im in a much better place financially now after 5 years hard slog. Im more than willing to increase my payments a clear this debt, but i need to know who they are. They've probably bough this debt for pennies and i will not be bullied into paying 13K they say i owe them.

sorry for rambling but thanks in advance.

[labman]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

They are right about the meaning of enforcement in that they can continue to ask for the money and this is not counted as enforcement.

They can also fulfil your request by sending you a reconstituted agreement which means they've complied with your request, but they will not go to court without a true copy of the original agreement (or are very unlikely to - it has been known).

If they have not responded to the original CCA request I'd be inclined to send them this (with thanks to PriorityOne):

Dear Sir/Madam,

Your Ref: xxxxxxx

This is a formal request under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008.

I require your organisation to provide written confirmation that states clearly whether you currently hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement, or whether you do not hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement pertaining to myself.

For the avoidance of doubt, an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement is just that; not an application for credit and not a reconstructed or microfiched document from other sources.

Please note that until such times as a legally enforceable, original Consumer Credit Agreement can be produced and a copy sent to me by return, then this letter is not an acknowledgement of debt.

Please also note that failure to provide a direct answer to this request will be brought before the court, should you decide to defy the content of this letter and instruct solicitors to pursue enforcement action regardless.

Yours faithfully,


You will then know exactly where you stand with regards to this. If they don't have a true copy of the original agreement you are obviously in a much stronger position to withold payments on this basis. However, if you acknowledge there is a debt to pay, it still puts you in a strong position to repay it on your terms.

Whatever the position, if they demand more money than you are comfortable paying, you should post back up as there are other avenues that could be explored.

[thewife666]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

Thanks for your help. To be honest Im unsure as to what I should or shouldn't be doing. Im trying to play ball with these people by responding to their every letter and call but they are hard work, constantly demanding more, asking loads of questions that have nothing to do with them like how much does your wife earn,do you get a bonus. They haven't called me since the 12+2 so as im still paying them hopefully they've backed off a little.
Just another question if i may. this doesn't show on my credit scoring. I checked on experian and there's nothing on there. is it lurking in the back ground somewhere?
Whats my next move?

Thanks

[Pinky69]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

Hillesden send out a lot of stuff to put you under pressure. The secret to negotiation is to keep it simple. You have asked for a copy of the CCA - you needn't do anything else until they send you one and ignore the rest of the bumph they send out. All this about McGuffick is just to confuse you and make them think they have the upperhand. I have had several dealings with them and they are none to clever - I never paid them a penny and there is nothing they can do about it. They had a lost last year of £3million following on from other loses so they are pretty desperate. Hillesden has no power over you whatsoever - you decide what will be paid, not them. As for your credit rating, First Plus don't seem to have made an entry so it's a question of wait and see. If Hillesden wanted to make an entry they would have to speak to the original creditor before they did so - responsibility for it must be agreed between them. Watch for Hillesden passing the debt round from Hillesden to DLC to MDB - they are all Hillesden and again it is to try and put pressure on you. Another trick they have is to get another DCA to try to collect it for them, the point of which is lost on me. If that happens keep an eye on your credit records. Another DCA acting for Hillesden cannot make searches on Hillesden's behalf as the other DCA is not the data controller for the debt. If that happens, that's a complaint to the ICO and Hillesden will get censured for it - they do it all the time.

Did you receive a Notice of Assignment from First Plus to say they had sold the debt to Hillesden? If not, you have no proof that Hillesden has any legal right to collect the debt and don't pay them a penny until you have one. Hillesden will make one up and send it to you. Check all the details on it carefully.

[labman]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

Agree with Pinky - send the Prove It letter before anything as you have no idea they have the right to collect the debt.

[thewife666]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

Thank you for your help. Ive not logged on for a while as all has been quiet until recently.
I received a letter from Hillesden just before christmas saying that "Technically they are in breach of the Act as they are unable to provide a copy of the agreement I requested . However, although the agreement is unenforceable any monies they have collected have not been done so illegally."
Then basically they go on to say that because I have been paying them on a regular basis they are under the assumption that my liability is not in question.

Yesterday, I was checking my credit scoring with Experian and Hillesdon have recorded a default against me. Im not sure why. I am still paying tham and I dont have an agreement in place with them to default on. Can they do this??

[mr.ton]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

Whilst you are paying them they will say "thank you very much" & will worm their way around the situation so as you carry on paying them.
They have not provided an agreement so you are under no obligation to carry on paying them - so i would stop all payments immediately.
If they carry on harassing you then have them reported to all the relevant authorities.
If they have crayoned your credit file then have them reported for that to and claim compensation.
It matters not that you have paid money already, it can be argued that it was paid under pressure/intimidation/threats from them and you knew no better back then.

[mr.ton]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

" we would like to bring your attention to the ruling in case of Mcguffick and RBS in relation to "what is considered enforcement" the judgement stated that the bringing of proceddings is not enforcement. It follows that demanding payment is a step taken prior to the commencment of proceedings and therefore not considered enforcement"

This bit is a load of mumbo jumbo gibberish designed to confuse you - simply means in plain English that they can demand payment before they take legal action (which they never do anyway)....at the same time it is also ok for you to tell them to go foxtrot oscar.

[labman]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

As along as the debt has been assigned to them lawfully, yes they can - this is possibly why Pinky asked about a Notice of Assignment. You should also have received a Default Notice from them. Have you?

The fact they cannot supply an agreement and have actually put in writing that the agreement is unenforceable means you are within your rights to stop paying anything until such time as they do supply an agreement and it then becomes enforceable again.

Enforcement does not include writing to you and demanding payment, but if they make threats about legal action again, you should report them to the OFT as they should not threaten legal action if they cannot take this action. Without a copy of the agreement, even if they were the Original Creditor, they would be unable to enforce this in a Court of Law.

[Guest]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

Hi
Sorry but you are not “within you rights to stop paying”.
The company can default you and take you to court for none payment.
If they then produce a signed document you will be liable for all the payments’ you have missed plus interest calculated on those missed payments plus default charges for missing those payments.
If the agreement is unenforceable or cannot be enforced you will not have to pay, but if they do show an enforceable cotract or the judge decides that there will have been one signed you will have to make up all the payments you miss.
It is a gamble
IPeter

[mr.ton]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

"Sorry but you are not “within you rights to stop paying”.The company can default you and take you to court for none payment"

It's the OP's money and up to them what they do with it.
Only a court can say what happens with that money.
As most DCA's don't like going anywhere near courts then the OP has nothing to worry about :tinysmile_grin_t:

[labman]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

"Sorry but you are not “within you rights to stop paying”.The company can default you and take you to court for none payment"

It's the OP's money and up to them what they do with it.
Only a court can say what happens with that money.
As most DCA's don't like going anywhere near courts then the OP has nothing to worry about :tinysmile_grin_t:

Non-payment of what? An account they cannot prove exists?

As for the company defaulting him, I thought the OP said they'd already done that, so possibly a bit late for that comment.

[thewife666]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

Hi, Thanks for all the responses.
I did receive a letter from First Plus saying that they had passed the debt to Hillesden. To be honest it was just a couple of short sentences with half of the details missing. I'll go home dig that out tonight and give it a good read.

In response to the last post, I am still paying and they have already slapped a default on me. I have not receive a default notice. Do I write to them and ask them to remove it or wait for a while to see if anything comes through the post?
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Sorry, I take it that the OP is me. Im not that sharp

[mr.ton]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

If they have crayoned your credit file for a debt that they cannot prove that you owe then they will have libelled you & the compensation is £1000 per incorrect default i believe?

[labman]

Re: Hillesden DCA CCA request

I received a letter from Hillesden just before christmas saying that "Technically they are in breach of the Act as they are unable to provide a copy of the agreement I requested . However, although the agreement is unenforceable any monies they have collected have not been done so illegally."

Peter,

It seems to me they have admitted this in writing, thus, as I said, the OP does not have to pay. I also qualified it by stating that if an enforceable agreement is produced, then payment would have to recommence. However, as they've admitted in writing it is unenforceable, it's hard to see how it can suddenly magically change status.