professional opinion needed

[sqwuiza]

Hi,

A DCA has taken on a debt of mine and its causing a problem for me in getting a mortgage. the debt is for £1200.
Default date: 26/01/2006
Date updated: 12/08/2011.

At a guess how much would a DCA (Robinson Way) want from me in interest, fees etc...?
If I pleaded poverty would they except a percentage of what I owe them?

They telephoned me recently but I wouldn't confirm who I was so don't know how much they want. In January next year its 6 years without acknowledging the debt, then I believe the debt becomes statute barred (live in England).

Will the debt become satisfied after January?

Any advice would be helpful.

Cheers

[labman]

Re: professional opinion needed

Robinson Way tend to specialise in debts that either are unenforceable or are close to becoming UE. It would be well worth your while sending them a Prove It letter to prove their entitlement to demand this money from you.

Your post seems to be suggesting you might offer something to get them off your back. Sadly this will not affect the default at all as the default will stay there for 6 years regardless of whether the debt has been settled or not.

[teaboy2]

Re: professional opinion needed

Plus on top of what Labman said the statue barred clock would also reset meaning the debt will not be statued barred for another 6 years if you were to make a payment. In january the Default will fall of your credit file and will no longer effect your chance of getting a mortgage. So is it worth paying given that its taken them so long to chase you for it and that it may well be unenforceable anyway, or is it worth waiting another 10-11 weeks for it to fall of your file and then getting the mortgage?

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: professional opinion needed

Teaboy's advice seems very good in this situation.

[Gorang]

Re: professional opinion needed

In january the Default will fall of your credit file and will no longer effect your chance of getting a mortgage.

Teaboy this account will NOT drop off the OP's credit history in january because they have updated the account with the CRA on 12/08/2011, it will drop off on 13/08/17 IF they don't update the account again with the CRA

A few of us have been working on CRA stuff for a while now, and we have this


This extract is from a letter that came from the ICO regarding the CRA's

Account information is held by the credit reference agencies for a period of six years after the account was last active.

Any financial org can update an account (a settled or unsettled account) with the CRA's at any time, so the 6 year period does NOT kick in until the last update, as the "active" part refers to the info being aticve, NOT the monies paid

ie. if a financial org wants to be a bitch they can update the info 1 month before the 6 yrs are up, which resets the 6 yr clock again, and they could actually do this for the rest of your natural if they wanted to

and the worst part of this is there is NO ONE policing this at all, this is why DCA's are updating accounts that are just about statute barred, they are just keeping them alive on your CRA history

Yes the debt becomes statue barred and you do NOT need to pay it but it will NOT come off your credit history automatically, as they have updated the info

Once they stop proccessing the data for the account, it will come off automatically then, but it will be a 6yrs from the last date that they updated the account

Only thing I know of to get rid of this is, once the debt is statue barred, then you write to the CRA's to get them to remove the account, but they will want the proof that it is statute barred, and conformation from the creditor, all in all (altho I have NOT done this myself yet) I think this is NOT a quick process as far as I am aware

[teaboy2]

Re: professional opinion needed

Well if that is the case Gorang, then a letter before action for libel and inaccurate data placed on the credit file is in order, because once it is statuted barred they have no right to keep in on the credit file and it becomes inaccurate to say it is still owing when it is not legally owed any longer.

However there are 2 dates on a credit file entry i.e. date of default and date of last update, the update date should not reset the 6 year clock and it should fall off the file 6 years after the default date. So is it the default date that is being changed, if so then a complaint to the Credit reference agency and the DCA regarding inaccurate and libellous information on the credit file is in order. It is the default date that is the key here, the last updated date should play no relevance in this whatsoever.

[stevokenevo]

Re: professional opinion needed

i agree, in my experience the default falls off the file 6 years after default, not the last update.

[Gorang]

Re: professional opinion needed

Well if that is the case Gorang, then a letter before action for libel and inaccurate data placed on the credit file is in order, because once it is statuted barred they have no right to keep in on the credit file As much as I hate to say this, they do

and it becomes inaccurate to say it is still owing when it is not legally owed any longer. This is the problem it IS legally owed, it is just not legally enforcable, therefor as the debt is in fact owed and they will argue that they do have the right to inform other creditors of the status of the accont, which is the debt has NOT been settled

However there are 2 dates on a credit file entry i.e. date of default and date of last update, the update date should not reset the 6 year clock it does reset the clock as the CRA's have no way in knowing if you are still paying this debt off, as if a payment is made before the 6yrs for SB then as you know the clock is reset again

and it should fall off the file 6 years after the default date.No, as if you start paying the debt 1 month before the 6yrs are up for SB then you could still be paying this debt for another 6 yrs, which makes the account still active 12 yrs after the default was registered

So is it the default date that is being changed,No it is the info has been updated

if so then a complaint to the Credit reference agency and the DCA regarding inaccurate and libel information on the credit file is in order. Prob is that it is NOT libel for the reasons above

It is the default date that is the key here, the last updated date should play no relevance in this whatsoever. Again as much as I hate to say this, it is the last update that sets the clock as they will argue the reasons above

This is NOT an easy one to get off your credit history and this is only one of the reasons we started to look at the CRA's in detail

Also remember that the the CRA's have no actual input to what gets updated as this is done by the financial orgs, so the automatic bit does NOT kick in until a 6yr period has lapsed from the last update o the account

The only manual input that the CRA's actually have is if there is a dispute with a certain entry, as they have the powers to remove that entry, other than that they do nothing at all, as all other entries are made and placed by the financial orgs

The whole system is NOT fit for purpose

[teaboy2]

Re: professional opinion needed

Well if that is the case Gorang, then a letter before action for libel and inaccurate data placed on the credit file is in order, because once it is statuted barred they have no right to keep in on the credit file As much as I hate to say this, they do - Yes but they shouldn't

and it becomes inaccurate to say it is still owing when it is not legally owed any longer. This is the problem it IS legally owed, it is just not legally enforcable, therefor as the debt is in fact owed and they will argue that they do have the right to inform other creditors of the status of the accont, which is the debt has NOT been settled - But when the account is statuted barred they have no right to process your data or the account, and the account is not active unless it has been acknoweldge by the debtor. Even when repaying a debt the default still falls of your credit file after six years.

However there are 2 dates on a credit file entry i.e. date of default and date of last update, the update date should not reset the 6 year clock it does reset the clock as the CRA's have no way in knowing if you are still paying this debt off, as if a payment is made before the 6yrs for SB then as you know the clock is reset again - Actually they do, the creditor informs (or should inform) them, thats how they keep check of the amount that is still owing that is also shown on the credit file. Simply updating the credit record does not reset the clock, only a debtors acknowledgement of the debt can do that, and the onus of proof is on the creditor/DCA to proof such acknowledgement took place.

and it should fall off the file 6 years after the default date.No, as if you start paying the debt 1 month before the 6yrs are up for SB then you could still be paying this debt for another 6 yrs, which makes the account still active 12 yrs after the default was registered - Yes but thats only if the debtor does pay which is seen as acknowledgement, but the default still falls of the credit file even if the account itself is still active 6 years after the original date of the default.

So is it the default date that is being changed,No it is the info has been updated No because the default still falls of the account after 6 years, whether acknowledged or not.

if so then a complaint to the Credit reference agency and the DCA regarding inaccurate and libel information on the credit file is in order. Prob is that it is NOT libel for the reasons above - Yes it is libellous if they keep the default on the file for longer than 6 years as the law permits. Keeping a default on your file for longer than 6 years after the original default date makes the default on file unlawful and inaccurate as the default can only be on your credit file for a maximum of 6 years.

It is the default date that is the key here, the last updated date should play no relevance in this whatsoever. Again as much as I hate to say this, it is the last update that sets the clock as they will argue the reasons above - The last update does no such thing, it is the acknowledgment of the debt by the debtor that resets the clock. And even if they acknowledged the debt, the default will still fall of the file after 6 years, though the account will still show on your file minus the default if you acknowledge it - Where if you do not acknowledge then not only does the default fall off but the whole account will fall of your file too since it is not longer active once it is statue barred.

Read more at: professional opinion needed - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

This is NOT an easy one to get off your credit history and this is only one of the reasons we started to look at the CRA's in detail

Also remember that the the CRA's have no actual input to what gets updated as this is done by the financial orgs, so the automatic bit does NOT kick in until a 6yr period has lapsed from the last update o the account

The only manual input that the CRA's actually have is if there is a dispute with a certain entry, as they have the powers to remove that entry, other than that they do nothing at all, as all other entries are made and placed by the financial orgs

The whole system is NOT fit for purpose

Basically gorang, if the debtor does not acknowledge the debt the whole account will fall of his/her file after 6 years from the date of the original default regardless of when the last creditor updated the file as the account is deemed statuted barred and therefore inactive.

If the debtor were to acknowledge the debt by making a payment, then yes the default still falls of his/her file, but the account still remains on the file as being active until it is paid in full or until 6 years since the debtor last made a payment, as any such payment would reset the clock not the creditors last date of updating the account.

I do agree with your though that the system is not fit for purpose and i do think the CRA need proper regulations to govern how they operate, but i have found it rather easy once 6 years have passed where not acknowledgment by the debor has occurred to get such records removed from the credit file. Remember the onus of proove is on the creditor to proof the account is not statute barred which is impossible if no payment was made or no letter from the debtor stating they acknowledge the debt exist.

[labman]

Re: professional opinion needed

It is for this precise reason that any debt agency worth their weight in salt and negotiating DMP's ask for the account to be defaulted asap, rather than marked as an arrangement to pay. An AP stays on your CRF for 6 years AFTER the final payment has been made.

While the Default drops off, I think the account would only show up under a Table 1 search, not 100% on this?

[sqwuiza]

Re: professional opinion needed

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

I'm edging towards sending a "subject access request letter", looks like it wont do any harm.

The original debt was with London Scottish Bank which went bust, which makes me think are they trying a fast one.

Would anyone recommend this approach?

Cheers

[labman]

Re: professional opinion needed

No!

Well I wouldn't. The time to the debt becoming SB is so short, it really is not worth it. Robinson Way are highly unlikely to become much of a threat.

[sqwuiza]

Re: professional opinion needed

ok, I'l just sit tight.

How long does it take to get the default changed to satisfied once the 6 years is up?

Expecting a child middle of January and wanted to have a house by then but unfortunately its not to be!

[Gorang]

Re: professional opinion needed

Well if that is the case Gorang, then a letter before action for libel and inaccurate data placed on the credit file is in order, because once it is statuted barred they have no right to keep in on the credit file As much as I hate to say this, they do - Yes but they shouldn't- Yes you are exactly right, they shouldn't but the fact is they do

and it becomes inaccurate to say it is still owing when it is not legally owed any longer. This is the problem it IS legally owed, it is just not legally enforcable, therefor as the debt is in fact owed and they will argue that they do have the right to inform other creditors of the status of the accont, which is the debt has NOT been settled - But when the account is statuted barred they have no right to process your data or the account, Again you are exactly right, they do not have the right to process, but again the fact is they still do it, and completly ignore the fact that they have no right

and the account is not active unless it has been acknoweldge by the debtor. Even when repaying a debt the default still falls of your credit file after six years. Because they completely ignore that the fact the account is statute barred and they now have no right to process data on the account, the default now becomes completly irrelevant, as the account still stays on your credit history giving you a bad credit rating, just because they have updated the account

Like I said the biggest problem is the fact that there is ON ONE at all to police this and put a stop to them ignoring the points above

Yes I completely agree with you that all you have said is how the system is SUPPOSED to work but the fact remains that the system is NOT being worked like that by the DCA's, and their is NO ONE trying to put a stop to it

Like I said above everytime the DCA updates the account it just starts the 6yr clock again, as it makes NO difference if they are entitled to update it or not, the fact remains they have done it, so the account STAYS on your credit history and credit rating, giving you a bad credit score

Its the same as a DCA defaulting you for a 2nd time yrs after the OC has already defaulted the account, the DCA is NOT entitled to do it but the fact remains that some of them DO do it

This is only a couple of the reasons that a few of us have been digging deep into the CRA's for a while now, so we can have a look at what we can get done ourselves, as there is no regulator interested in doing anything with the CRA's to stamp this out

By the way sorry for hijacking your thread here sqwuiza

[teaboy2]

Re: professional opinion needed

Hi Gorang

I do know that they will say and try anything to keep the record on a persons credit file, but a letter before action threatening court action, as i described in my PM to you would make them back down, as we both know they would not want to test this in court as its clear they would lose and have to pay significant damages for the prejudice they have caused by their actions to the debtor.

So yes they are not suppose to be doing what they are doing, but the law makes it clear they are not entitled to do it. And they stand to not gain anything by coing to court either as they can not counter claim to attempt to enforce the debt or use the debt as evidence as its no longer legally entitled to the debt or to enforce the debt, and making records on a person credit file is enforcement in a sense as it wrongly tries to force an alleged debtor to pay up even though they legally do not have to once the debt is statuted barred.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

ok, I'l just sit tight.

How long does it take to get the default changed to satisfied once the 6 years is up?

Expecting a child middle of January and wanted to have a house by then but unfortunately its not to be!

Usually a maximum of 30 days. But you can place a note on your file with the credit reference agencies making it clear you dispute the debt and the default. as it is now statute barred and you do not acknowledge being the alleged debtor.

If the account still appears on your file, after the default is removed. Let us know as we can up the pressure on the DCA or creditor to have it removed, as per what i said in my post above.