Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

[jumper999]

I have been studying the FSA Register to try and understand who regulates who and how. If anyone can make any sense or agrees with what I have concluded then please feel free to add to this thread.

Right first thing..........a lot of you know that if you took a loan out before 2008 and it was over £25k then it is unregulated.......so protection is scare and you have to go the long way round if you have any grieviences i.e unfair terms etc etc.

Blemain Finance claim that they are an appointed representative of Cheshire Mortgage Corporation Limited and CMCL are authorised by the FSA. So this means as far as Blemain are concerned is that as they are are an appointed representative of an authorised firm they are under section 19 of the Financial Services Market Act exempt and do not require authorisation and therefor Blemain are not authorised and do not have to be by the FSA.

OK, that bit I just about understand...........so moving on to the next thing.....

As CMCL are authorised by the FSA I searched the FSA register to find out exactly what they are authorised and allowed to do and it is:

305253 - Cheshire Mortgage Corporation Limited


Activity Name: Administering a regulated mortgage contract
Investment Instrument
Regulated mortgage contract

Customer type
Customer

Activity Name: Advising on investments (except on Pension Transfers and Pension Opt Outs)
Investment Instrument
Non-investment insurance contracts

Customer type
Commercial
Retail (Non-Investment Insurance)

Activity Name: Advising on regulated mortgage contracts
Investment Instrument
Regulated mortgage contract

Customer type
Customer

Activity Name: Agreeing to carry on a regulated activity
Limitation
Limited to carry on regulated activities.

Activity Name: Arranging (bringing about) deals in investments
Investment Instrument
Non-investment insurance contracts

Customer type
Commercial
Retail (Non-Investment Insurance)

Activity Name: Arranging (bringing about) regulated mortgage contracts
Investment Instrument
Regulated mortgage contract

Customer type
Customer

Activity Name: Assisting in the administration and performance of a contract of insurance
Investment Instrument
Non-investment insurance contracts

Customer type
Commercial
Retail (Non-Investment Insurance)

Activity Name: Dealing in investments as agent
Investment Instrument
Non-investment insurance contracts

Customer type
Commercial
Retail (Non-Investment Insurance)

Activity Name: Entering into a regulated mortgage contract as lender
Investment Instrument
Regulated mortgage contract

Customer type
Customer

Activity Name: Making arrangements with a view to regulated mortgage contracts
Investment Instrument
Regulated mortgage contract

Customer type
Customer

Activity Name: Making arrangements with a view to transactions in investments
Investment Instrument
Non-investment insurance contracts

Customer type
Commercial
Retail (Non-Investment Insurance)


The section where it states Limited to carry on Regulatory Activities means

Limited to carry on regulated activities.

The firm can only agree to carry on the regulated activities specified in this Notice.


If you look up the information what an appointed representative is authorised to do according to the FSA is

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/smallfirms/res..._factsheet.pdf

This section below states that the principal in Blemains case the principal is CMCL MUST carry full responsibilty of anything and everything that Blemain do or don't do


What does being an AR mean?

The AR acts as an agent for the Principal. The Principal must be a firm that is FSA authorised. The Principal must accept full responsibility including any liabilities that might arise for ensuring that the AR complies with the FSA’s regulation. There must be a written contract between the Principal and the AR documenting this arrangement.

What I am trying to basically get at and hope I can be understood as I may not word it properly.......is that CMCL are only authorised to carry out the above activities i.r Regulated Mortgages and Blemain do give unregulated mortgages which do not come under the FSA or CCA save s140 of the CCA 74.


If CMCL are authorised by the FSA to carry out mortgage activities then they must take full responsibilty for any unregulated loan taken out with Blemain even if it was pre 2008........................because Blemain's principal is CMCL and as CMCL's appointed representative CMCL must be responsible for Blemain's involvement with setting up any loan.


Especially this part:

The Principal’s (CMCL) supervisory responsibilities:

At all times the Principal (WHO IN THIS CASE IS CMCL) must have adequate controls and resources to ensure that its AR(s) (BLEMAIN) are fully compliant. For example, the Principal (CMCL) is responsible for ensuring that its AR(s) (BLEMAIN) at the time of appointment and on an ongoing basis are:


"able to deliver the same level of protection to clients as if clients had dealt with the Principal itself and if the AR is not, the Principal must provide that protection itself;"


Basically I think this means that Blemain have to deliver the same level of protection to borrowers as if the borrower had taken a loan out through CMCL...........and the borrower is covered by the full protection by CMCL as they are authorised by the FSA so..............how do Blemain get away by saying that they do not need to be or are not authorised by the FSA?

They are a AR of CMCL & CMCL are authorised by the FSA............and anything wrong that Blemain do then CMCL must carry full responsibilty?

Sorry for the long post.............but there is just more to this than meets the eye and would appreciate any input in all the gobbledy gook I just wrote.

[jumper999]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

I got this from the CMCL website:


Cheshire Mortgage Corporation Ltd, company number 02613335. Blemain Finance Limited, company number 01185052. Lancashire Mortgage Corporation Limited, company number 02058813. All registered in the UK, Registered Office and geographic addresses: 6th Floor, Bracken House, Charles Street, Manchester M1 7BD. Group VAT registration number 588797251.

Cheshire Mortgage Corporation Ltd is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority, www.fsa.gov.uk, registration number 305253. Cheshire Mortgage Corporation is a member of the Council of Mortgage Lenders, www.cml.org.uk

Blemain Finance Limited and Lancashire Mortgage Corporation Limited are Introducer Appointed Representatives, for Insurance Mediation, of Cheshire Mortgage Corporation Limited, firm reference numbers 305253 and 414373 respectively.

Blemain Finance is a member of the Finance and Leasing Association, www.fla.org.uk.

Does that mean that Blemain are only authorised to do Insurance according to what is written in bold?

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

I got this from the CMCL website:


Cheshire Mortgage Corporation Ltd, company number 02613335. Blemain Finance Limited, company number 01185052. Lancashire Mortgage Corporation Limited, company number 02058813. All registered in the UK, Registered Office and geographic addresses: 6th Floor, Bracken House, Charles Street, Manchester M1 7BD. Group VAT registration number 588797251.

Cheshire Mortgage Corporation Ltd is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority, www.fsa.gov.uk, registration number 305253. Cheshire Mortgage Corporation is a member of the Council of Mortgage Lenders, www.cml.org.uk

Blemain Finance Limited and Lancashire Mortgage Corporation Limited are Introducer Appointed Representatives, for Insurance Mediation, of Cheshire Mortgage Corporation Limited, firm reference numbers 305253 and 414373 respectively.

Blemain Finance is a member of the Finance and Leasing Association, www.fla.org.uk.

Does that mean that Blemain are only authorised to do Insurance according to what is written in bold?

Just e-mailed you the answer to that Jumper.........The answer is simple...........YES that is all they are an appointed representative for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>INSURANCE PURPOSES



Sparkie

[jumper999]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

If anyone can get their head around this...........According to CCA Register, and as far as I can make out is that Blemain Finance were added to this list 2 Feb 2011:

CCA Home Page :: CCA Search :: CCA Search Results :: Licence Details :: Licence History :: Event Details

Event Details

Licence Details:


Licence/Application Number Licence Status Applicant/Holder Name 0032328 Current Blemain Finance Limited Event Details:


Event Number Event Type Date of Receipt Closed Date Status 42 Variation 02-Feb-2011 07-Mar-2011 Completed

Trading Names:

NameAction BlemainAdded Blemain Finance Added

If Blemain Fiance were only added this year they why are have they been sending letters previous to Feb headed BLEMAIN FINANCE? At the bottom of their letters it states Blemain Finance Ltd.........unless they are all one name & company?

Bit strange that the name Blemain Finance has only been added to the CCA register a few months before thier renewal of their licence by the OFT which is currently pending.

I may be wrong or looking too much in to matters................

[jumper999]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

Some info for all


http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/cons...sponses_mr.pdf

[jumper999]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

When making a request to the claimant for standard disclosure do you have to fill in form n265 or can the list of documents that you require from the lender be in a letter format?

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

When making a request to the claimant for standard disclosure do you have to fill in form n265 or can the list of documents that you require from the lender be in a letter format?

Hi JUmper,

If proceedings are in progress you make the request under Civil Procedure Rules CPR 18.
You then list the documents you want disclosue of

Just something like this
In The >>>>>>>>>Court
Between........................................... ................Case No

I do hereby make this request under Civil Procedure Rules CPR 18 for the following information
1>>>>>>>>>>
2>>>>>>>>>>
3>>>>>>>>>>
etc etc

Signed

Defendant,or Claimant

Sparkie

[jumper999]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

I think that this question comes under contract law....and the creditor must give information about what charges the borrower will have to pay i.e for being in arrears, late payment...and default?

Is there any rules, regulations, case laws stating that default charges must be incoporated in the agreement.

I know that the CCA has its own guidelines and set of rules...but I am trying to find out if the lender/creditor must include what the cost would be if the borrower breached the agreement.

Must there be a term or condition showing this information please...just because it is unregulated.....would that mean that this information would not have to be included in the agreement?

any help will be great...

happy xmas & happy new year to all xx

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

I think that this question comes under contract law....and the creditor must give information about what charges the borrower will have to pay i.e for being in arrears, late payment...and default?

Is there any rules, regulations, case laws stating that default charges must be incoporated in the agreement.

I know that the CCA has its own guidelines and set of rules...but I am trying to find out if the lender/creditor must include what the cost would be if the borrower breached the agreement.

Must there be a term or condition showing this information please...just because it is unregulated.....would that mean that this information would not have to be included in the agreement?

any help will be great...

happy xmas & happy new year to all xx

Hi jumper.
Hope ypu had a good Xmas ......as good as can be expected under the circumstances

I would say IMO that if they are not shown on any contract it woud be useful to consider using the Misrepresentation Act 1967.

Misrepresentation by Omission.........omitting to tell you something they knew but you didn't..............If you can get hold of the Chitty on Contracts MIsrepresentation..........real good stuff in that.......but its BXXXXX expensive
Hope this is useful....there's a bit about this in the Claim I've just posted on the Swift thread
Sparkie

Remember this is only my view which cannot be taken as fact

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

I think that the lender (regulated ag or not) must include in the contract all potential charges on breach to avoid problems under UTCCR 1999. A vague provision that enabled a lender to demand unspecified sums would I believe be a breach of several sections within Schedule 2;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...chedule/2/made

I think that any provision within any contract that fell foul of UTCCR would not be enforceable (S8(1)) but the rest of the contract might still survive (S8(2)).

So if the lender then says that you must pay x amount in charges, but this charge is not specified in the contract, then it must be demanded under a hidden term which is not allowable under UTCCR and so could be justifiably withheld.

Defo worth reading OFT311...

LA

[jumper999]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

Thanks sparkie and LA.....does anyone know what surety means? is a joint borrower in a joint loan a surety?

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

It could mean a guarantor...like someone taking legal responsibility for someone else's debt...but I think it could also mean 'security', like using your house as security for a loan.

So a joint borrower is unlikely to be the surety, unless he/she is also the guarantor or has used his/her own property/assets to guarantee that a debt is repaid.

I think... :tinysmile_grin_t:

Good luck!

LA

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

It could mean a guarantor...like someone taking legal responsibility for someone else's debt...but I think it could also mean 'security', like using your house as security for a loan.

So a joint borrower is unlikely to be the surety, unless he/she is also the guarantor or has used his/her own property/assets to guarantee that a debt is repaid.

I think... :tinysmile_grin_t:

Good luck!

LA

That's as good an interpretation as it gets and I agree with LA on this

Sparkie

[jumper999]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

Thanks LA & Sparkie, just I was trying to find any case law or reference where before signing a loan agreement must the lender advise that legal advice should be sought before signing the agreement.

I know the O Bien & Etridge case judgments say that the wife must seek legal advice before signing...but those 2 cases involved wives acting as surities for their husbands debts.

I am trying to find out about joint borrowing for joint purpose..and if the sames rules as O Brien & Etridge apply? must a wife seek legal advice prior to signing the agreement..must the lender insist this be done......there was that case CPIT which said that the legal advice would not be sorted for joint borrowers for joint purposes.

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Blemain & Cheshire Regulations

Thanks LA & Sparkie, just I was trying to find any case law or reference where before signing a loan agreement must the lender advise that legal advice should be sought before signing the agreement.

I know the O Bien & Etridge case judgments say that the wife must seek legal advice before signing...but those 2 cases involved wives acting as surities for their husbands debts.

I am trying to find out about joint borrowing for joint purpose..and if the sames rules as O Brien & Etridge apply? must a wife seek legal advice prior to signing the agreement..must the lender insist this be done......there was that case CPIT which said that the legal advice would not be sorted for joint borrowers for joint purposes.

It is my understanding that the agreement should show on the signature page that independant legal advice should be sought before signing the agreement.......I could be wrong on this...... other opinions should be sought.

Sparkie

I am Not a legally trained person and the opinions I put forward on any subject are my own