Lowell question

[winner12]

Hi all posted this under a new heading
I am putting a letter togeather with regards to my debt with Lowells (see thread if needed Lowells and shop direct)
I have trawlled through OFT guidlines with regard to assignment and my question is this if Lowells bought the debt as an absolute assignment surely they did not need to go back to Shop Direct to retrive a CCA
would all the info on the account have to be passed to Lowells thus leading me to believe that lowells have not legally assigned the debt if they have to ask Shop Direct for information

[Crispybacon]

Re: Lowell question

Hi all posted this under a new heading
I am putting a letter togeather with regards to my debt with Lowells (see thread if needed Lowells and shop direct)
I have trawlled through OFT guidlines with regard to assignment and my question is this if Lowells bought the debt as an absolute assignment surely they did not need to go back to Shop Direct to retrive a CCA
would all the info on the account have to be passed to Lowells thus leading me to believe that lowells have not legally assigned the debt if they have to ask Shop Direct for information

Hi Winner

What makes you think that Lowell have absolute assignment rather than equitable assignment?

Have you written to them to ask? You may want to remind them at the same time that in their response they be mindful of their obligations under CUPTR.

Of course even if they do have absolute assignment this does not mean that:

1) SDG actually gave Lowell the credit agreement even though they are meant to

2) That Lowells aren't just trying to fob you off by saying they need to go back to SDG (you expect a DCA to tell the truth?!)

3) That a CCA exists at all.............

Best

Crispy

[winner12]

Re: Lowell question

Hi crispy
Nice to hear from you
I have a letter I posted on my Lowells thread Curly reckons its all a con so im just clarifying info to pen my letter
I have a letter from SD refering to my CCA request to say they have sent a copy of current T&Cs so I put the account in dispute
SD then sold to Lowells while in dispute
Lowells then came up with a CCA

[Caspar]

Re: Lowell question

I still think you should just ask as per my post on the thread. If they lie, then it just adds weight to your argument.

[winner12]

Re: Lowell question

Thanks Casper
Will do that for now then and let you know

[teaboy2]

Re: Lowell question

No, only the debt itself is assigned. So you may find the only documents they have is the assignment document and a statement of account from the original creditor. This however does not effect their right to enforce the debt, especially if the original creditor still has all the documents, such as CCA and statutory Notices.

Reading your other thread and the issues with the CCA lowell provided (which was a CCA for a completely different account and creditor), then trying to get this sorted by going for the assignment is not the way to go about it. They are clearly in default of your CCA request for the shop direct account.

Send the below letter and attach a photo copy of the letter you got from shop direct stating they did not have a copy of the CCA:

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Date:

Ref:

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/78. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**
You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 working days after you made the initial request).

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired.

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become currently unenforceable at law.

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.
You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

Please take note of the attached letter from Shop Direct, confirming they do not hold a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement for the account. You should therefore be aware that i am wise to your attempt of trying to pass of a consumer credit agreement for a seperate account i hold for being the consumer credit agreement for this alleged account with Shop Direct. Such purposeful attempt to mislead me is fraud, so be very careful as to what you say or do next as i am keeping copies of everything as evidence and reserve the right to take legal action without further notice.

I look forward to hearing from you. This should be in writing, I have no wish to correspond by telephone.

Yours faithfully

Dont sign by hand, and remeber to edit in the dates in the areas provided.

[winner12]

Re: Lowell question

Hi Teaboy
Bugger so confused Im sure I did not sign for a catalogue I have a debt with Lowells for a Littlewoods account that changed to LPF but it was a CC the CCA lowells have miraculously found the T&Cs are so small
I can only read it with my specs on and through a magnifying glass and all it goes on about is a littlewoods flexible account card
Help

[teaboy2]

Re: Lowell question

Right, on the cca they sent you, does it say littlewoods credit card on it or littlewoods shop direct home shopping limited or similar? or is it just a bunch of terms and conditions?

Also the account number on the CCA, does it match that of the Credit Card or the Shop Direct account?

Very important questions, so we need a clear answers to be certain as to what account the CCA they have sent you is for.

Or better still can you scan what they sent you and post it up here minus any personal details.

Oh and hello to all 17 guest!! It most be really busy in the lowells office today if your all sat viewing threads on this forum!

[winner12]

Re: Lowell question

Thanks Teaboy
Sorry cant scan and post but I can say
The CCA states
Credit agreement regulated by the consumer Credit Act 1974
With Littlewoods Retail trading as Littlewoods Flexible Account
Then there are the boxes for Name Address DOB
Then a box for a flexible account card number (number in there)
Then just the boxes for signatures(signed by me dated 2/10/02)
Right to cancel box
Signed on behalf of littlewoods flexible account
Not dated
Littlewoods Flexible account terms and conditions (so small its difficult to read)
and then another Credit agreement with shop direct dated 04/05/10 non of it filled in
Lowells cover letter states its a copy of your original credit agreement with shop direct in response to your request under section 78(1) of the consumer credit act 1974
But i only sent Lowells account in dispute letter when they hassled me in July 2011 not a request for a CCA
Hope this helps

[teaboy2]

Re: Lowell question

Thanks Teaboy
Sorry cant scan and post but I can say
The CCA states
Credit agreement regulated by the consumer Credit Act 1974
With Littlewoods Retail trading as Littlewoods Flexible Account
Then there are the boxes for Name Address DOB
Then a box for a flexible account card number (number in there)
Then just the boxes for signatures(signed by me dated 2/10/02)
Right to cancel box
Signed on behalf of littlewoods flexible account
Not dated
Littlewoods Flexible account terms and conditions (so small its difficult to read)
and then another Credit agreement with shop direct dated 04/05/10 non of it filled in
Lowells cover letter states its a copy of your original credit agreement with shop direct in response to your request under section 78(1) of the consumer credit act 1974
But i only sent Lowells account in dispute letter when they hassled me in July 2011 not a request for a CCA
Hope this helps

Right so if they have sent you a seperate cca for the shop direct account then its clear the littlewoods flexible account has to be a seperate account (have you ever had a littlewoods flaxible account? note its not a credit card)

Seems thay have sent you a blank copy of the shop direct, as if your name and address is not on it then it does not a reconsituted version.

To be on the safe side send them this instead:

Address

Date

Dear sir/madam

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.
In your response you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the XXXXX.

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and would therefore only be enforceable by a court under s65. However, the absence of any (prescribed terms / signature) means that a court would be prevented from enforcing it under s127(3).

Please take note of the attached letter from Shop Direct, confirming they do not hold a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement for the account. You should therefore be aware that i am wise to your attempt of trying to pass of a consumer credit agreement for a seperate account (which i made no request for) alleged to be a littlewoods flexible account consumer credit agreement along with a blank CCA for this alleged account (which my request was for) with Shop Direct. Such purposeful attempt to mislead me could be deemed as fraud, so be very careful as to what you say or do next as i am keeping copies of everything as evidence and reserve the right to take legal action without further notice.

I am granting to you a further 21 days to produce a copy of an executable agreement. After that I will consider that the above account is closed and that you will no longer pursue the alleged debt.

After this period you should close the file and cease processing an personal data relating to me on this matter.

Yours faithfully

Again do not sign by hand.

I can not see why they sent the littlewoods flexible account CCA with a blank copy of a shop direct one, therefore i believe they sent the littlewoods one along with the blank one to try and mislead you into thinking, well if they have my details and signiture on the littlewoods one then i most have signed a CCA for the shop direct one even though they have only send a blank copy that only shows what the agreement would have look liked and does nothing to prove you actually did sign anything.

Did you by any chance purchase through shop direct via their website and not actually sign any agreement with them - as i believe that is the most likely case.

[winner12]

Re: Lowell question

As far as Im aware Littlewoods became Additions cant remeber when and in turn Additions became Shop Direct
I only ever dealt with littlewoods by telephone with orders and payments were made direct by card or sometimes by cheque
Thanks

[teaboy2]

Re: Lowell question

Yes littlewoods is shop direct limited now. So it would appear the the littlewoods cca is for the same account.

Do you actually know what item your suppose to have puchased that this debt is for?

As am assuming as you paid for all items by card, that maybe you purchased one item through shop direct on a finance basis in which case they would have had to have set up a credit agreement per individual purchase.

When you say paid by card do you mean the littlewoods credit card. (littlewoods flexible account). I think what has happened is you purchased through shop direct and they setup a credit account for shop direct for you to make that purchase. For which they would need your details on the shop direct account CCA as well.

[winner12]

Re: Lowell question

Hi
To clarify ordered goods from Littlewoods originally paid off in full but account set up like a catalogue so credit limit given ordered goods occasionally sometimes paid miniums and sometimes paid off
Additions took over ordered goods again paid monthly sometimes paying off fully account taken over by Shop Direct with outstanding balance from additions
Had a financial faux par (Im an idiot) and ended up in this situation
So my next question is does all of this make the original CCA with littlewoods valid and why did Shop Direct not supply what Lowells seem to have
Sorry Teaboy may be your now as confused as I am is it going to be a SAR request to Shop Direct

[teaboy2]

Re: Lowell question

Right basically the CCA was with littlewoods, and as far as am ware they should have set up a new CCA for the account when it was changed to Shop Direct when you made your first purchase through SHOP DIRECT, but they didn't, Hence why they sent a blank one. So littlewoods are the original creditor for your original purchase only, question is are littlewoods deemed a seperate entity to that of shop direct, i would say no and that they are the same entity.

So i would look at finding out what the product/item the amount they are claiming is owed for, and if you have never purchased such a product/item then we can go from there. If you have pruchased the item then unless you have already paid for it, then am afraid you would have to set up a repayment plan. Though if your last payment for it was over 6 years ago (5 if in scotland) then it would be statute barred and you wouldn't have to pay a thing.

If the product was purchased from SHOP DIRECT when all littlewood money owed had been paid - Then they would need a completed (filledout) Agreement. As one agreement for one purchase can not be used for that of a seperate purchase nor can they add it to an already paid off credit agreement for a previous purchase, that i know off. If it had still been littlewoods then yes they could do add to the original littlewoods agreement, but they are now called shop direct, so they would have to have the agreement as a shop direct agreement for purchases you made through shop direct and as littlewoods for purchases you made when they were littlewoods.

So send in a subject access request to get a breack down of what is owned to SHOP DIRECT (Not Lowells) as lowells probably wont have all the details anyway.

Confusing as hell lol

[winner12]

Re: Lowell question

Thanks Teaboy once again
The goods the CCA refers to from littlewoods would of been paid for years ago the goods from Shop direct have been quite recent within the last couple of years I know I should pay for those but my issue is SD would not let me set a payment plan
Having been stung by Capital 1 (another story) I requested my CCA and put the account in dispute with the intention of negotiating a repayment plan but they passed me to Lowells who I believe have not got toal assignment of the debt so as par the course I sent account sold whilst in dispute
And that is why Im now trying to solve my issues
Thanks for all your help
ps I have never signed anything else with additions or Shop Direct