Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

[bigalafornication]

Hi all

I have looked at various posts regarding how to deal with first DCA letter, but my circumstances are a dit different to the other posters as I am not in dispute with the properety management company, i simply forgot to pay a couple of weeks ago and now they have passed the debt over to PDC who are trying to charge me £400 for a charge that was £170.

RMG notified me that I had 7 days to pay £170, they would issue no further request (this was their first letter after the original invoice, they used to send a third red letter but not this time) we will refer you to a debt collection agency and "you will then become responsible for additional charges which may be in excess of £230. This covers land registry, admin charges, pursue arrears via mortgage lender.

i then received the letter from PDCsaying the usual if you do not pax xx which includes our costs of xx we will have no alternative to contact your morgage lender for the arrears.

My TP1 / deeeds of covenance state:

The transferee within 14 days of receipt will pay maint charge

in the event after 7 days unpaid (whether formally demanded or not) the transferee will pay interest at 4% per annum above base rate of xxx bank, prevailling from time to time upon the amount remaining unpaid from the date upon which it become due to date of payment and if not paid shall be deemed to be a debt due to the management company and recoverable by action

I am not sure if a "prove it" letter is suitable but wondered if the OFT rules below apply as the DCA states they are acting on belalf of the Management company:

2.9 Charges should not be levied unfairly.
2.10 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
a. claiming collection costs from a debtor in the absence of express
contractual or other legal provision
b. misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay
collection charges when this is not the case, for example, when there
is no contractual provision
c. not giving an indication in credit agreements of the amount of any
charges payable on default
d. applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual
and necessary costs
e. applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.

I dont mind either paying interest on my late payment (which i couldnt make as the amount was no longer on RMG's system to pay) or the costs of PDC issuing their first hello letter, but no more.

Cheers in advance for your replies.

Al

** Forgot to add, I have a freehold house and the charge relates to the communal land that has had the grass cut 3 times in the last year!

[mr.ton]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

Hi.
No DCA has any legal power to money off you whatsoever - only a court does & only after a proper legal process has been gone through etc..
Any charges being added on will be illegal.
Report them to the OFT,trading standards if they refuse to stop harassing you.
I would also consider making an official complaint about RMG to the authorities as well.

[bigalafornication]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

I have just had a look at the charge the Managemet company is trying to screw me for which makes up the remainder of the additional charge, £18 Land Registry and £42 Admin fee!

[bigalafornication]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

Hi

I sent the prove it letter registered, which was picked up and signed for and they have totally ignored it and sent the same demand out again, along with an additional threatening letter stating if you have a leasehold property they will be informing your lender, so please sign here to accept the debt. The best bit about this terrer was it was addressed to someone esle 150 miles away. Also the DCA have got a hold of my email address from the property management company and have sent an electronic copy of the letter too.

What do I need to do next since they ignored my first prove it letter.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

Re-send the letter and report them to the OFT and Consumer Direct!

[pharmer1908]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

We have received a letter today from a company called Property Debt Collection Limited.

It is a demand for money immediately and I have had no such "hello" letter referred to above.

We live on a new estate in South Yorkshire and pay a company called RMG an amount of around £150 per year as a service charge for maintaining the grounds. We moved in September last year and paid a proportion of this charge for the remainder of 2010. We were not sure when the 2011 would be due but were advised by the builders that RMG would send us an invoice saying when and how to pay.

Although we owe RMG £152, the letter from PDC is asking for £392.10 which includes their charges of £180!! I have no idea where the other amount is made up from?

I contacted RMG yesterday and theyadvised they sent an invoice on 13/1/2011 and a reminder on 15/2/2011. We have received neither and I advised them of this and I am interested to see comments above about other customers details being sent to the wrong address?

We have absolutely no issue whatsoever paying RMG the £152 but we find the other charges appalling, overpriced and not reletave to the amount oustanding.

I have advised RMG that I want this escalating. They gave me a call reference which I have taken a note of and they will call me back on Monday.

However, after reading other posts on this and other numerous websites, it would appear that I have 2 choices. pay the charges, or go to court and have a good chance of winning but stand the cost of this which will be much more than the charges.

What steps can I take to try and appeal to RMG's better nature? Dont they need to prove I received their invoice and their reminder because I defintely have not. Surely, common sense would tell them that 2 professional people would not avoid payment for a a bill of a paltry £150 which they know they must pay? To not pay would be madness.

Any info and help would be appreciated.

[leclerc]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

We have received a letter today from a company called Property Debt Collection Limited.

It is a demand for money immediately and I have had no such "hello" letter referred to above.

We live on a new estate in South Yorkshire and pay a company called RMG an amount of around £150 per year as a service charge for maintaining the grounds. We moved in September last year and paid a proportion of this charge for the remainder of 2010. We were not sure when the 2011 would be due but were advised by the builders that RMG would send us an invoice saying when and how to pay.

Although we owe RMG £152, the letter from PDC is asking for £392.10 which includes their charges of £180!! I have no idea where the other amount is made up from?

I contacted RMG yesterday and theyadvised they sent an invoice on 13/1/2011 and a reminder on 15/2/2011. We have received neither and I advised them of this and I am interested to see comments above about other customers details being sent to the wrong address?

We have absolutely no issue whatsoever paying RMG the £152 but we find the other charges appalling, overpriced and not reletave to the amount oustanding.

I have advised RMG that I want this escalating. They gave me a call reference which I have taken a note of and they will call me back on Monday.

However, after reading other posts on this and other numerous websites, it would appear that I have 2 choices. pay the charges, or go to court and have a good chance of winning but stand the cost of this which will be much more than the charges.

What steps can I take to try and appeal to RMG's better nature? Dont they need to prove I received their invoice and their reminder because I defintely have not. Surely, common sense would tell them that 2 professional people would not avoid payment for a a bill of a paltry £150 which they know they must pay? To not pay would be madness.

Any info and help would be appreciated.

Have you clarified with them, which address they sent the invoice to since you are willing to pay the £150.00 to them and was expecting an invoice which you did not receive?
Have you asked RMG if they will accept the payment of £150.00(no need to mention further charges from the other company when talking to RMG)?

[tinkerbelle86]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

I received a letter on 8th march 2011 demanding £422..£182 for RMG and £240 for PDCs services. thing is, i never received any invoices or letters from rmg, and the letter from PDC was apparently the second reminder. After contacting them, the informed me that altogether they had sent me 5 letters..of which i only received 1! I contacted them saying im prepared to pay the service charge but im not willing to pay £240 for PDCs services of sending me 1 letter. Their excuse was that its most likely royal mails fault, even though i have recevied my other mail fine.

they also told me that its not up to rmg to chase me for money, that its my responsibility to pay. i had no idea that it ran 1st jan to 31st dec. and if they dont send me a bill, or i dont receive one, how do i know im meant to pay? im not telepathic!!

the same thing happened last year and i ended up paying £1040 cause of rmg's clearly rubbish admin skills! anyone else been threatned by pdc and had the fines dropped?

[redman]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

RMG were dismissed as block managing agents from a site I now manage.

In this type of situation, I would first suggest contacting the Freeholders keeping the matter informal. If you get no joy, then make a formal complaint to them by registered post with a copy to the managing agent. (Also try to get the email address of a Director and send them a copy bcc)

Threaten legal action all the way!

Next, as a leaseholder, you have the right to inspect the financial accounts and records of your development/block etc. Demand your rights and make an appointment to visit the agents offices. Ask them to provide each and every receipt and invoice ready for your inspection. A little research will probably reveal that the property managers spouse is one of the contractors!

In my experience, the agents will have a heap of stuff they would prefer to keep confidential. The more digging you do, the more you will uncover!! Specifically ask them in your written complaint to disclose if any officers or employees are related in any way, shape or form to any of the contractors who have been used at your specific development and to confirm, who out of those contractors, they receive a commissions from?

Finally, send a copy of your complaint to any known regulating bodies they may be registered with and threaten to write to other customers!

[glibberton]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

I wish I had seen this post earlier. I had a similar issue with RMG living. One fine day I received a letter from PDC and when I called they said they had sent me reminders. It happened that they had my previous address in their system despite me having provided my changed address. In addition, last year, i had another letter from PDC for new debt collection charges. Again RMG living says they had sent me three reminders for service charge reserve fund, which I never got. They say that Royal mail must have lost the letters. I am disputing this charges right now and have refused to pay the debt collection charges but they still keep it on my account and send me threatening letters. My question right now is what should I do with the charges that are still on my account?

This company is the epitome of unethical practice. FYI, I recently found out that the debt collection agency PDC (Property debt collection ltd) is owned by the same parent company that owns RMG living. In the past RMG living used to be known as CPM. There were lots of complaints against them and there was an internet campaign against them in 2008. This forced them to change their name(but not practices) to RMG living. I wish more people came out with their experiences. I guess we should create an forum or something for complaints against this company.

[englanj]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

Hi Guys

My wife and I bought a flat in Portsmouth for our daughter to live in, about eleven years ago. We have had abysmal service from CPM and have had the same from RMG.

My daughter moved out about a year ago and we have rented it through an agent while we try to sell it. We have told both CPM and RMG repeatedly to not send invoices to the flat but to us, ay our home address. This has been done for a couple of years until this year where they have lost out home address, and sent invoices to our flat where the tenants appear to have thrown them away. They final got their Debt agency to trace my wife and I, indecently are writing to my wife under her unmarried name despite us being married for eleven years. I have registered a a complaint with them the second in four years and have just received a letter with the same old cut and paste rubbish, basicaly telling us to take a flying leap. I am now thoroughly hacked of with them an intend to gather as much evidence as possible of their bad practice.

In the mean time I have traced a uaseful arbitration PDF document at www.lease-advice.org/ and have asked for arbitration. On here there is the Residential Property Tribunal Service Help Line WWW. Justice.gov.uk, number 0845 600 3178. I will pay the management fee as I always intended but go to arbitration for the £ 283 extra they have piled on top.

If any of you hear of any one else, or want to have a go with me let me know.

I will also be contacting the Office of Fair Trading. Lets make them earn their money not just shove us around.

Regards Jeff

[teaboy2]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

Guys if they are not keeping accurate data on persons addresses, which by the sounds of things, they may be doing this deliberately to make a financial gain through a possible culsion with PDC (You have no contract with PDC, therefore they are not legally entitled to charge you collection fees unless it is stated in the agreement with RMC). Should my assumption prove to be right then they would be committing fraud. Anyway, regarding the data and address issues, make formal complaints about it to the information commissioners office so they can investigate RMC.

[englanj]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

Guys if they are not keeping accurate data on persons addresses, which by the sounds of things, they may be doing this deliberately to make a financial gain through a possible culsion with PDC (You have no contract with PDC, therefore they are not legally entitled to charge you collection fees unless it is stated in the agreement with RMC). Should my assumption prove to be right then they would be committing fraud. Anyway, regarding the data and address issues, make formal complaints about it to the information commissioners office so they can investigate RMC.

Hi thank you for your reply. I will follow up on your lead. They have been charging us £ 18 to carry out Land Registry searches to try to find us after they have lost our address. They are coming up with an address of a property we owned 12 years ago, thhree moves ago. They have also charged us for an £ 18 land register search after I paid on time and in full last years maintenance.

Would you consider this to be fraud?

Regards Jeff & Sue

[teaboy2]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

Hi thank you for your reply. I will follow up on your lead. They have been charging us £ 18 to carry out Land Registry searches to try to find us after they have lost our address. They are coming up with an address of a property we owned 12 years ago, thhree moves ago. They have also charged us for an £ 18 land register search after I paid on time and in full last years maintenance.

Would you consider this to be fraud?

Regards Jeff & Sue

Its not fraud to charge administrative costs to you - But since, the cost of a search submitted online to the land registry is only £3 then their charges are not an accurate representation of their costs, and therefore a penalty in law, that is in my view. Though if such chargeable costs are not under the terms agreed then where it allows them to charge you such costs, then they are not entitled to charge you anything.

But as they claim to not have your address, when they do, then yes it could be deemed as fraud.

[Elecwiz]

Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

Hi Jeff/Sue

Have you had any success...I have a similar issue. I paid RMG an advance payment on February leaving a balance of £247 for December... I had received no letter asking for the balance...and as far as I knew it would be due in November as there statements run from Jan to Dec...then I receive a letter from pdc asking for £522...there fee of £192...plus admin fee, land reg search fee, reminder fee etc...

I think it is disgusting that they think they can charge these fee for no reason...I guess they need there Christmas bonuses...
I had wrote an email to RMG....and they advise it out of there control and i need to contact pdc...
and advise would be great before i contact The Leasehold Advisory Service...


Many Thanks
Raj