DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

I am fuming.

My wife had a phone call this morning and another one this afternoon. I dealt with both on her behalf. They claim she worked while on Income Support for 8 weeks in 2002 and claims she owes nearly £2000.

As she is in receipt of Carer's Allowance they intend to take this at a rate of £17.64 per week. I reminded them of a conversation (posted on here I think) a month ago where they promised not to take any further action until we had seen all the paperwork relating to this case. We have received nothing until a letter this morning stating she owes the money and are going to take it, hence the phone calls.

They have agreed to hold action until they receive my appeal letter and SAR and have responded to them. They even admitted on the phone THEY HAVE NO PAPERWORK RELATING TO THIS! How will they respond to an SAR requesting paperwork, e-mails, notes written and electronic etc... etc...

They claim they do not have to prove anything and can just take the money - surely this cannot be true? Surely I must (my wife must) have access to a court of law for this case to be heard or are the DWP really above the law? Can they really with NO evidence steal our money?

[marshallka]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

Casper, I thought you had this sorted via a relative? Can you perhaps ask that they do something again.

[Caspar]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

Casper, I thought you had this sorted via a relative? Can you perhaps ask that they do something again.

My brother is Director for Change and Integration for DWP - google Jonathan Lindley.

Am I right in thinking they can't legally do what they're doing, especially when they've admitted having no paperwork whatsoever relating to this case?

[QCKate]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

I am fuming.

My wife had a phone call this morning and another one this afternoon. I dealt with both on her behalf. They claim she worked while on Income Support for 8 weeks in 2002 and claims she owes nearly £2000.

As she is in receipt of Carer's Allowance they intend to take this at a rate of £17.64 per week. I reminded them of a conversation (posted on here I think) a month ago where they promised not to take any further action until we had seen all the paperwork relating to this case. We have received nothing until a letter this morning stating she owes the money and are going to take it, hence the phone calls.

They have agreed to hold action until they receive my appeal letter and SAR and have responded to them. They even admitted on the phone THEY HAVE NO PAPERWORK RELATING TO THIS! How will they respond to an SAR requesting paperwork, e-mails, notes written and electronic etc... etc...

They claim they do not have to prove anything and can just take the money - surely this cannot be true? Surely I must (my wife must) have access to a court of law for this case to be heard or are the DWP really above the law? Can they really with NO evidence steal our money?

Jjust a thought Casper, why not write or go and see your MP. Im sure he or she would heklp you.

QCK

[Caspar]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

Jjust a thought Casper, why not write or go and see your MP. Im sure he or she would heklp you.

QCK

Thanks Kate - that's an option. Still would like a view on whether or not my belief that they're bang out of order here is right or not? I just cannot see how they can take our money when they admit having no paperwork to back up their allegations!

[Caspar]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

Here is my Appeal Letter and SAR sent today Special Delivery. Anyone like to comment?

[sprattjack]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

Casper, put the wind up them, tell them that you wish to see a transcript of your telephone conversations, your MP needs them for your case.

[bazaar]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

You need to put major pressure on them right away.
As said earlier, get your MP on the case ( DWP really do not want them investigating and asking awkward questions).
Also since this relates to something from 2003 /2004 is it not statute barred?
Press them for transcripts of phone calls etc.
The more you kick at them the better

[Caspar]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

SB with these things is strange and unfair. They never become SB as it's public monies. However, if you're not claiming any benefit they don't seem to pursue you. As soon as you start claiming (my wife has just started getting Carers Allowaance) then they want to deduct it from that.

MP may well be the way to go if I don't get any response to SAR request. They have admitted to me over the phone they have no proof in writing, so I'm not quite sure what to expect in an SAR. Given they'll admit this over the phone, how do they think they can still claim the alleged overpayment?

Roll on the arrival of my Truecall then I can record them saying what they said!

[bazaar]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

Well, with no proof, it is just hearsay isnt it?
You should get transcripts of phone calls and maybe some screen dumps, which will hopefully show you the cretin thats making these decisions.
THEN you make the formal complaint, request the forms or get them online.
You'll state that so and so has made unfounded allegations and reduced your entitlement.
After the first stage complaint, they will 'investigate' and deny everything.
You then instigate the second stage complaint, They MUST then get an independant investigator in to interview you.
This is where you'll demand re-instatement of full benefits AND compensation for the strees etc.
We are currently, following this route for our daughter, so keep the pressure on.
Youve got to name and shame the people who make the decision, then you can hint at legal action against them personally

They dont like it up em Captain Manwarring

[Amethyst]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

Did your wife undertake paid work for 8 weeks in 2002 ?

Just not sure if you are arguing because it is not true or because they don't have the paperwork as you don't actually say it isn't true on here or in the appeal letter - all that states is ''I am prepared to provide an affidavit stating I received no payment from the shop owners'' so I presume she worked in a shop voluntarily for an 8 week period ? has someone alledged she was paid ? Did she receive any other benefit for working in the shop (goods etc) ?

[Caspar]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

Did your wife undertake paid work for 8 weeks in 2002 ?

Just not sure if you are arguing because it is not true or because they don't have the paperwork as you don't actually say it isn't true on here or in the appeal letter - all that states is ''I am prepared to provide an affidavit stating I received no payment from the shop owners'' so I presume she worked in a shop voluntarily for an 8 week period ? has someone alledged she was paid ? Did she receive any other benefit for working in the shop (goods etc) ?

Hope this clarifies things. Her sister owned the shop. My now wife was then on Income Support. Her sister was ill so she covered some (not all) of the time unpaid to help out. She was reported and served a person from DWP 3 times over the 8 week period (but only in the capacity of helping her sister, she was genuinely NEVER paid for this work). She received nothing except a thank you for helping family at a time of need.

She was interviewed by the DWP who claim she was alone in the shop. At the time they were offered CCTV evidence to prove her sister popped in from her house (linked to the shop via one door into their living room) to make sure my wife was OK. They declined to see this and at no stage asked to talk to the owner.

Despite this AND the fact they readily admit to not having evidence, they are still entitled to act as judge and jury without taking my wife to court and find her guilty, thus wanting to make deductions from her Carer's Allowance.

I know it sounds strange to say she served this person 3 times and they say they have no evidence, but that is exactly what they said to me on the phone recently. That's why I'm so interested in seeing the SAR.

[Amethyst]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

Thats much clearer, thank you - I do think you should have specified those details in your appeal docs rather than concentrate on their lack of evidence, you need to defend as well as attack their shortcomings.

[Caspar]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

It will be interesting to see what, if any, effect the ruling yesterday has on this. As they are claiming fraudulent activity it obviously doesn't come directly under the ruling, but I do wonder if it means they don't need to go to court and prove their case. At present they seem above the law as without taking you to court they can find you guilty and take money from your benefits.

Totally take your point about the appeal thanks - it was a case of being incensed that they confess to having no evidence. They can't have any evidence cos she didn't do it! Just seems so unfair they can be judge and jury in this manner.

[jaydp]

Re: DWP - who the hell do they think they are?

Hi Just read this thread with some interest, one of the reasons that the DWP are chasing this is the fact that they were served 3 times on 3 occassions by the same person, hence probability is that your wife was employed.
I know you are balancing on the fact that they have no evidence but as the benefits paid are taxpayers funds, they will show this fact as wilful neglect on your part for not informing them.
I would send your letter of appeal with the small change that Amethyst has advised and then at the same time do 2 of the following;-
1) Write to HMRC and ask if they have any employment details for the said period. as this will show that your wife was not employed.
2) A letter from the family member stating that your wife assissted due to ill Health and a letter from her accountant stating that no wages were claimed as expenses, for this particular period.

This will certainly help your MP or the independant review, when reviewing the circumstances.

Hope all goes well.