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THIS IS VERY LONG BUT I HAVE ADDED AS MUCH RELEVANT INFO, SORRY!
I am having huge problems with a HP car finance with Welcome
Finance taken out on nov 06, direct debits paid each month of £277 with no problems. I reduced payments due to temporary income decrease last march 09. Welcome accepted new amount of £100 but said if I wanted to keep paying this amount as a new set amount then I would have to sign new agreement.
I asked for a statement to work out what had been paid to date which I never got. Was advised to send a SAR which I did.
Got back very little, copies of ID used to get the finance, a Statement of demands, copy of agreement and a statement showing payments. No schedule or policy document for the GAP was provided.
The statement shows loads of adhoc and capitalisation fees which after a lengthy call with Welcome have now been removed but still no details have been sent as to what they were for.
Account transferred to Welcome Assets? wich at least speak to me and answer questions.
A letter was received demanding to know where the car is!it is a request under section 80 of the cca 1974. I still do not know why this letter was sent as Welcome have told me tthat the account has not defaulted (yet).
A Welcome staff member said that she does not think it would be a good idea to accept the rewrite offered as it doubles the amount we would then owe over 10 yrs when we've already paid 2/3rds already and have less than 2 yrs if paid £277.
I still can't get anything to balance and the amount on the agreement just does not calculate.
The car if off the road, untaxed as I am not happy about using it until the dispute is resolved, but Welcome keep saying there is no dispute????? I can afford to pay and probably catch up with arrears but am reluctant to in view of the amount of issues. FOS sent Welcome a letter to which no reply was ever recieved.
I sent the below letter:
Dear Sir / Madam,
A Data Protection Act Subject Access Request (SAR) dated xxxxx was sent to you with regard to the above account together with £10 administrative fee. To date, the documents we have received in response to our request are as follows:
Balance of account, Terms & Conditions, An Agreement signed and dated by Mr x, Photocopies of ID provided by ourselves, A completed direct debit mandate, A loan agreement front sheet, A Vehicle Summary Details sheet, A Statement of Price.
However there appear to be documents missing and, by sending this letter, we are requesting that these documents be provided immediately in accordance with our original SAR.
The items we require include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:
1) A true copy of the Hire Purchase Agreement for the car, signed and dated by both the borrowers (joint finance) and on behalf of the creditor
2) A true copy of the Credit Agreement for the Shortfall Extra/Guaranteed Asset Protection (GAP) Insurance, signed and dated by both the borrowers (joint finance) and on behalf of the creditor
3) The Schedule of Insurance and the Policy Document for the Shortfall Extra\GAP Insurance
4) Details of telephone conversations and logged notes.
5) All letters of correspondence (none were included with documents sent)
6) Documents listed on the WFS – Loan Agreement Front Sheet that have been ticked as being available but have not been provided as follows; proposal/application form, dealer warranty, payout check-list, comments sheet, quote, FSA document sheet and insurance documents.
7) Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains our personal or financial, or which pertains to us, including correspondence to the underwriter of any insurance policies and details of the relevant Insurance Premium Tax (IPT) payable on any single premium policies. Please ensure this includes how much tax was payable, who payment was made to and the date of this payment
By way of this letter of complaint, we also request the following:
8)A written explanation with regard to each and every adhoc and capitalisation fee, specifically the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial Breakdown of how the charge was calculated and what the charge covers. We are aware that some of these have been removed following a conversation with the xxx office. However, a explanation is required nevertheless
9) An explanation of the Option Fee and the Acceptance Fee and details as to how they have been calculated
10) An explanation as to why the Vehicle Summary Details document incorrectly states that the car is xxx coloured and not xxx
11) An rexplanation as to why a Vehicle Registration Document (V5 Log Book) not been provided to date together with your assurance that it will now be provided within a reasonable period of time
12) A definition and explanation of the term “DIP” as shown on the WFS – Loan Agreement Front Sheet
13) Details of any commissions paid to any party in regards to our account
14) An explanation as to why a letter titled “ Request under Section 80 of the consumer credit act 1974” requesting details as to the car location and advising of 7 days to comply with the request was sent. We understand this is a legitimate request but we fail to understand why it was sent when payments were being made and there was no default
15) An explanation as to why the figures on the copy of the unsigned agreement do not appear balance. It states:
amount of credit for goods 6900.00
amount of credit for insurances 295.00
total amount of credit 7195.00
total amount payable for the goods 12870.88
total amount payable for the insurances 530.99
total amount payable 13401.76
Total Months 48, APR 40.4%, Monthly Payment 277.12
When calculated, 48 X £277.12 = 13301.76, difference of £100
When using an APR loan calculator (from the FSA website) the calculations are:
Loan amount = 7,195.00, Years = 4, APR% = 40.4, Payments per year = 12,
Amount per repayment £304.33
Total paid over the life of the loan £14,607.84
Total interest paid during loan £7,412.84
We understand that you have eight weeks to reasonably respond to the above queries. However, the documents outstanding from the Data Protection Act Subject Access Request dated xx/xx/xx are now overdue.
In view of the difficulty in obtaining a response to queries raised in the past together with our serious concerns over the validity of the original agreement and the calculations used therein, we do not feel that it is appropriate to continue making payments until these matters have resolved to our mutual satisfaction or a decision has been made by the Financial Services Ombudsman.
Please send written confirmation upon receipt this letter of complaint.
Yours Sincerely
In their letter replying to my letter of complaint they say:
" in regards to the commission paid to the third party for brokering the deal through Welcome Finance, I can confirm that unfortunately we do not retain this data and we are under no obligation to provide it should customers have a query in regards to this."
and also on the calculations:
"I have briefly spoken to a member of the legal team and he has advised that because we do not know what figures you have keyed in what section of the calculator we are unable to advise why they do not match up with ours. He also advised there is a FAS website, obviously different to the FSA, which gives different and random numbers. Could you have in error used this site instead? (CHEEKY BLIGHTERS) I have calculated the figures using the caculator the OFT use and the figures have come back accurate.
Does anyone know how to calcualte these as I thought I couldn't go wrong with the FSA (def FSA not FAS whatever that is!!!).No idea what the OFT one is.
Then afer another standard letter saying we are looking into your queries we then got another letter. I've typed it word for word. Its laughable really. They really don't seem to be able to answer a single question and claim that they all ready have done so!!! It does make you question a company who do not appear to be able to answer simple questions requesting information they should know.
The letter received:
"Thank you for your letter dated June 09. Your questions have been noted, however we feel that all your queries have been fully addressed." where? when?
"A statement of a/c is enclosed in which you will see all your repayments listed & charges applied." Yes thanks, we have about 10 of these already as you send one each time we send you a letter that you don't seem to want to deal with. "We also include a copy of the charges poliy that was applicable at the time you commenced your agreement and would remind you that this was provided to you at the point of sale." The problem with this one is that it is dated dec 06 which was many months after taking out the finance, the BIG date on it gives it away, idiots
"We are under no obligation to provide commissions paid to third party details to you in respect of this transaction and that a full copy of the agreement covering finance, insurances and acceptance fee were also provided to you at the point of sale."
I now have the joys of Lewis Group phoning me and sending letters. So far they have all been ignored as a letter was sent in response saying please see copies of letters regarding outstanding dispute. Welcome still say there is no dispute but I can't understand why they won't answer any of my questions and some of them are quite serious.
I am having huge problems with a HP car finance with Welcome
Finance taken out on nov 06, direct debits paid each month of £277 with no problems. I reduced payments due to temporary income decrease last march 09. Welcome accepted new amount of £100 but said if I wanted to keep paying this amount as a new set amount then I would have to sign new agreement.
I asked for a statement to work out what had been paid to date which I never got. Was advised to send a SAR which I did.
Got back very little, copies of ID used to get the finance, a Statement of demands, copy of agreement and a statement showing payments. No schedule or policy document for the GAP was provided.
The statement shows loads of adhoc and capitalisation fees which after a lengthy call with Welcome have now been removed but still no details have been sent as to what they were for.
Account transferred to Welcome Assets? wich at least speak to me and answer questions.
A letter was received demanding to know where the car is!it is a request under section 80 of the cca 1974. I still do not know why this letter was sent as Welcome have told me tthat the account has not defaulted (yet).
A Welcome staff member said that she does not think it would be a good idea to accept the rewrite offered as it doubles the amount we would then owe over 10 yrs when we've already paid 2/3rds already and have less than 2 yrs if paid £277.
I still can't get anything to balance and the amount on the agreement just does not calculate.
The car if off the road, untaxed as I am not happy about using it until the dispute is resolved, but Welcome keep saying there is no dispute????? I can afford to pay and probably catch up with arrears but am reluctant to in view of the amount of issues. FOS sent Welcome a letter to which no reply was ever recieved.
I sent the below letter:
Dear Sir / Madam,
A Data Protection Act Subject Access Request (SAR) dated xxxxx was sent to you with regard to the above account together with £10 administrative fee. To date, the documents we have received in response to our request are as follows:
Balance of account, Terms & Conditions, An Agreement signed and dated by Mr x, Photocopies of ID provided by ourselves, A completed direct debit mandate, A loan agreement front sheet, A Vehicle Summary Details sheet, A Statement of Price.
However there appear to be documents missing and, by sending this letter, we are requesting that these documents be provided immediately in accordance with our original SAR.
The items we require include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:
1) A true copy of the Hire Purchase Agreement for the car, signed and dated by both the borrowers (joint finance) and on behalf of the creditor
2) A true copy of the Credit Agreement for the Shortfall Extra/Guaranteed Asset Protection (GAP) Insurance, signed and dated by both the borrowers (joint finance) and on behalf of the creditor
3) The Schedule of Insurance and the Policy Document for the Shortfall Extra\GAP Insurance
4) Details of telephone conversations and logged notes.
5) All letters of correspondence (none were included with documents sent)
6) Documents listed on the WFS – Loan Agreement Front Sheet that have been ticked as being available but have not been provided as follows; proposal/application form, dealer warranty, payout check-list, comments sheet, quote, FSA document sheet and insurance documents.
7) Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains our personal or financial, or which pertains to us, including correspondence to the underwriter of any insurance policies and details of the relevant Insurance Premium Tax (IPT) payable on any single premium policies. Please ensure this includes how much tax was payable, who payment was made to and the date of this payment
By way of this letter of complaint, we also request the following:
8)A written explanation with regard to each and every adhoc and capitalisation fee, specifically the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial Breakdown of how the charge was calculated and what the charge covers. We are aware that some of these have been removed following a conversation with the xxx office. However, a explanation is required nevertheless
9) An explanation of the Option Fee and the Acceptance Fee and details as to how they have been calculated
10) An explanation as to why the Vehicle Summary Details document incorrectly states that the car is xxx coloured and not xxx
11) An rexplanation as to why a Vehicle Registration Document (V5 Log Book) not been provided to date together with your assurance that it will now be provided within a reasonable period of time
12) A definition and explanation of the term “DIP” as shown on the WFS – Loan Agreement Front Sheet
13) Details of any commissions paid to any party in regards to our account
14) An explanation as to why a letter titled “ Request under Section 80 of the consumer credit act 1974” requesting details as to the car location and advising of 7 days to comply with the request was sent. We understand this is a legitimate request but we fail to understand why it was sent when payments were being made and there was no default
15) An explanation as to why the figures on the copy of the unsigned agreement do not appear balance. It states:
amount of credit for goods 6900.00
amount of credit for insurances 295.00
total amount of credit 7195.00
total amount payable for the goods 12870.88
total amount payable for the insurances 530.99
total amount payable 13401.76
Total Months 48, APR 40.4%, Monthly Payment 277.12
When calculated, 48 X £277.12 = 13301.76, difference of £100
When using an APR loan calculator (from the FSA website) the calculations are:
Loan amount = 7,195.00, Years = 4, APR% = 40.4, Payments per year = 12,
Amount per repayment £304.33
Total paid over the life of the loan £14,607.84
Total interest paid during loan £7,412.84
We understand that you have eight weeks to reasonably respond to the above queries. However, the documents outstanding from the Data Protection Act Subject Access Request dated xx/xx/xx are now overdue.
In view of the difficulty in obtaining a response to queries raised in the past together with our serious concerns over the validity of the original agreement and the calculations used therein, we do not feel that it is appropriate to continue making payments until these matters have resolved to our mutual satisfaction or a decision has been made by the Financial Services Ombudsman.
Please send written confirmation upon receipt this letter of complaint.
Yours Sincerely
In their letter replying to my letter of complaint they say:
" in regards to the commission paid to the third party for brokering the deal through Welcome Finance, I can confirm that unfortunately we do not retain this data and we are under no obligation to provide it should customers have a query in regards to this."
and also on the calculations:
"I have briefly spoken to a member of the legal team and he has advised that because we do not know what figures you have keyed in what section of the calculator we are unable to advise why they do not match up with ours. He also advised there is a FAS website, obviously different to the FSA, which gives different and random numbers. Could you have in error used this site instead? (CHEEKY BLIGHTERS) I have calculated the figures using the caculator the OFT use and the figures have come back accurate.
Does anyone know how to calcualte these as I thought I couldn't go wrong with the FSA (def FSA not FAS whatever that is!!!).No idea what the OFT one is.
Then afer another standard letter saying we are looking into your queries we then got another letter. I've typed it word for word. Its laughable really. They really don't seem to be able to answer a single question and claim that they all ready have done so!!! It does make you question a company who do not appear to be able to answer simple questions requesting information they should know.
The letter received:
"Thank you for your letter dated June 09. Your questions have been noted, however we feel that all your queries have been fully addressed." where? when?
"A statement of a/c is enclosed in which you will see all your repayments listed & charges applied." Yes thanks, we have about 10 of these already as you send one each time we send you a letter that you don't seem to want to deal with. "We also include a copy of the charges poliy that was applicable at the time you commenced your agreement and would remind you that this was provided to you at the point of sale." The problem with this one is that it is dated dec 06 which was many months after taking out the finance, the BIG date on it gives it away, idiots
"We are under no obligation to provide commissions paid to third party details to you in respect of this transaction and that a full copy of the agreement covering finance, insurances and acceptance fee were also provided to you at the point of sale."
I now have the joys of Lewis Group phoning me and sending letters. So far they have all been ignored as a letter was sent in response saying please see copies of letters regarding outstanding dispute. Welcome still say there is no dispute but I can't understand why they won't answer any of my questions and some of them are quite serious.
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