Assignment of Debt

[Brian]

Re: Assignment of Debt

This thread mirrors exactly what is going on right now with my other half.
MBNA sold a credit card debt to equi***T (apparently) and now this shower are quoting LOP 1925 blah blah. I think 4 letters have now crossed asking them to prove it and we wait.... (last letter was 15 months ago!)

Bri

[ODC]

Re: Assignment of Debt

The usual ploy for DCAs was to include a crude cut and paste job purporting to be from the OC but for some strange reason containing all the DCAs barcodes and in the same envelope as the Hello letter.

[Wolfy]

Re: Assignment of Debt

Just to add to the mix. Can anyone tell me what happens if the NOA is invalid? Just say, for example, that it contains a date which is different from that on the DOA. The NOA is therefore invalid (case law backs this up) but can the assignee just issue a new NOA stating the correct date? What happens if, in the meantime, the assignee has started court proceedings?

[greta-girl]

Re: Assignment of Debt

I find this topic confusing. From previous posts it seems that the DCA can send a Notice of Assignment but is the wording important? Is this example either one of a Legal (Equitable) Assignment or an Absolute Assignment?:

The DCA say they recently bought the account from the OC. They enclosed this statement printed on a photocopy of the OC's letterhead paper:

"We herby give notice of the transfer of the debt due to us from you in respect of the balance of £x outstanding on your ***** card account. On **/**/**** your account was sold to ******* DCA. Any further communications and payments must be made to ******* DCA".

The OC wrote direct to me "I can confirm we sold your account to ******* DCA".

should I start my own thread?

[greta-girl]

Re: Assignment of Debt

bump

[ItWasn'tMe]

Re: Assignment of Debt

136. Legal assignments of things in action. — (1) Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice—
Surely this means it must come from the Original Creditor

It means that the assignor must sign the contract or deed himself and not use an agent or a representative.

Hence, the NoA can be sent by anyone.

Just to add to the mix. Can anyone tell me what happens if the NOA is invalid? Just say, for example, that it contains a date which is different from that on the DOA. The NOA is therefore invalid (case law backs this up) but can the assignee just issue a new NOA stating the correct date? What happens if, in the meantime, the assignee has started court proceedings?

As per Pearson Education 2005, Weddell 1995, an assignee can assign a NoA after Court proceedings have started.

I personally wouldn't want to argue this in Court but if at best, they have an equitable assignment, there is nothing in case law or statute which states that they can't issue a compliant NoA after Court proceedings have started but you are entitled to ask that valid question.

Just a heads up though that in Technocrats 2004 (EWHC 692), a defective contract of assignment (whether by deed or simple contract) and invalid NoA was held not to make the assignment ineffective and paras 52-57 delve into it.

The worrying thing is what the Honourable Mr Justice Field says in para 57 in relation to a defective NoA, with Fredic being the Defendant:

"Even if those notices were ineffective, the service of the claim form is itself notice to Fredic of the assignment."

I personally haven't seen this upheld or renounced and of the view point that it is, excuse the latin, ratio decidendi but again, unless challenged, not sure how far that statement will be upheld.

Also, as per Three Rivers DC 1994, the assignee of an equitable assignment can sue in their own name and must join the original assignor unless there are special circumstances, as explained in Performing Right Society 1924, the special circumstances are that the assignor can't be joined as a Claimant or a Defendant for some reason.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

I find this topic confusing. From previous posts it seems that the DCA can send a Notice of Assignment but is the wording important? Is this example either one of a Legal (Equitable) Assignment or an Absolute Assignment?:

The DCA say they recently bought the account from the OC. They enclosed this statement printed on a photocopy of the OC's letterhead paper:

"We herby give notice of the transfer of the debt due to us from you in respect of the balance of £x outstanding on your ***** card account. On **/**/**** your account was sold to ******* DCA. Any further communications and payments must be made to ******* DCA".

The OC wrote direct to me "I can confirm we sold your account to ******* DCA".

should I start my own thread?

Wording is not important, or content, or even letter size but what is important is that it is clear who the assignee and assignor are, and if mentioned, the date of the legal assignment must be accurate, and again, if mentioned the amount mentioned must be accurate but in the latter case, it is dictum from Lord Denning in a case (W F Harrison 1956) in the Court of Appeal where the date and the amount were inaccurate and he made a ruling on the date but didn't make one on the amount.

It would be good to start your own thread if you have more indepth questions.

[basa48]

Re: Assignment of Debt

The usual ploy for DCAs was to include a crude cut and paste job purporting to be from the OC but for some strange reason containing all the DCAs barcodes and in the same envelope as the Hello letter.

Well yes, I have received a Hello letter from a DCA plus a follow up containing a NoA on the OCs headed paper.

Unfortunately the hello letter quoted their client (a well known Irish Co!) as the assignee, whereas the supposed NoA named the DCA themselves as assignees.

Confused??

Incidentally this was all after an ineffective DN.

[The Tinkerman]

Re: Assignment of Debt

Hi all
Same sort of situation Myself

got CCJ back in 2000 then was sold onto DCA unbeknown to me?

Then sold on again to 2nd DCA whom bought this debt back in 2002, but only instigated proceedings to be substituted as the new claimant in Jan 2010 and got it due to me not receiving their application and witness statement until 3 days before the hearing date thus giving me no time to challenge it !

I applied for a hearing to set aside this on those grounds, and also the drivel which was in their witness statement.
eg, 1st DCA who bought this CCJ debt from the Original Creditor I never received a copy of the absolute assignment from either the OC,DCA, or their solicitor.

Which in the witness statement from the 2nd DCA states that I did receive a copy from the 1st DCA, and I know I didn't receive it because I have got all my correspondence even before the Judgement.


I then asked the 2nd DCA for a copy of that absolute assignment 3 x Guess what! their solicitor sent me chapter & verse of each sale of assignments OC signature to first DCA then the sale to the current DCA apart from wait for it, a copy of the first absolute assignment that was called sent to me and their excuse for that from their solicitor was that " as the now claimant was not a party to the first assignment my client is not in possession of any such notices", WELL HOW CONVENIENT OF THEM funny how they seem to have just about every other document appertaining to the first sale,


I honestly think that because I have challenged them about certain legalities and the right to be substituted as the new claimant also given the fact they bought this debt 8 years ago this 2nd DCA is trying to flex their muscles by applying for a variation order
in the middle of my set aside application,

more to the point how can a second DCA be allowed buy the debt off the first DCA if the first DCA never sent me a copy of the absolute assignment as therefore it is not theirs to sell or for the 2nd DCA to buy.

Very interesting threads, if you look at the LOP act 1925 s136 & 196 literally if no assignment or incorrect then it is game over for the DCA but reading between the lines from the cases posted it seems to me not all the Judges see it that way, I suppose allot depends on the Judge you get and his version of the law.

In my own thread

re LEGALITY OF ASSIGNMENTS & ON INTEREST AFTER JUDGEMENT

I am not trying to shirk my responsibilities as a debtor here I just want to make sure everything that the OC & both DCA have done is above board and legal which personally in my case I don't think it is, so I will challenge it in Court even if I lose and I get more costs added and end up with a charging order, at least I will not be saying to myself for the next 30 years or so WHAT IF!!!