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I thought I'd start a thread for the first time in ages after being unexpectedly contacted by a company called Red Castle Recoveries for two alleged debts.
They claim I owe them £155.08 and £446.83 for alleged debts owed to CIT Group (UK) Ltd. At first, I did not recognise what the debt was for, but last Sunday my wife answered the phone and found someone asking for me. Unsuspectingly, I came to the phone and found myself speaking to a representative of this company who told me the debts relate to purchasing a Dell computer some time ago.
Now I know that I have one debt to Dell, but this is covered by an IVA that has been running for about year now. I don't however, know about any other debt allegedly owed to Dell. Gonna have to dig out the IVA forms and find out a bit more about this.
Anyway, in the meantime, I have decided to follow CurlyBen's guide to dealing with these people.
To that end, I sent a 'nice' letter to Red Castle Recoveries on 10th March 2010 which basically said:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Evidently, this company are being a bit thick and in the conversation I had with their representative last Sunday he denied ever having seen such a letter. This is further evidenced by the fact that they continue to bombard me with calls and letters in regards to this matter.
Therefore, yesterday I took the next step and sent them a full SAR request. To ensure that they cannot deny receiving the latest letter, I decided to send it by recorded delivery. This went out yesterday and should be received by them this morning. My latest letter says:
Dear Sir or Madam:
ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXXX
YOUR REF: XXXXXXXXX
I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY
Despite my previous correspondence, a copy of which is enclosed for your reference, you continue to bombard me with unwanted phone-calls and letters in regard to this alleged debt. Therefore, you leave me with no alternative than to request that you send me a true copy of this credit agreement before I will correspond further on this matter.
This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request.
Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.
I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.
Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
For the sake of clarity, may I also draw your attention to the following:
Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.175
Where under this Act a person is deemed to receive a notice or payment as agent of the creditor or owner under the regulated agreement, he shall be deemed to be under a contractual duty to the creditor or owner to transmit the notice, or remit the payment, to him forthwith.
Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.
In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :
1. True copy of original signed executed credit agreement
2. FULL Statement of account
3. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from CIT and Red Castle Recoveries.
4. A fair processing notice.
As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.
Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.
Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment, and will be reported to the relevant authorities.
I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.
I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.
I look forward to hearing from you in writing.
Yours faithfully
So, have started the ball rolling to see exactly what they have and to find out where the second debt comes from. I shall be checking the IVA details later today to find the details for the known debt that is covered by the IVA and get my IVA agents to contact this company with a 'cease and desist' order as the debt is covered by the IVA.
The other debt I simply want to know where it came from as I have knowledge of this.
Will keep you all posted on progress.
They claim I owe them £155.08 and £446.83 for alleged debts owed to CIT Group (UK) Ltd. At first, I did not recognise what the debt was for, but last Sunday my wife answered the phone and found someone asking for me. Unsuspectingly, I came to the phone and found myself speaking to a representative of this company who told me the debts relate to purchasing a Dell computer some time ago.
Now I know that I have one debt to Dell, but this is covered by an IVA that has been running for about year now. I don't however, know about any other debt allegedly owed to Dell. Gonna have to dig out the IVA forms and find out a bit more about this.
Anyway, in the meantime, I have decided to follow CurlyBen's guide to dealing with these people.
To that end, I sent a 'nice' letter to Red Castle Recoveries on 10th March 2010 which basically said:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Your Reference: XXXXXXXXXXXX
You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.
I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to CIT Group.
I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.
I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.
Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.
I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.
I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.
I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully
You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.
I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to CIT Group.
I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.
I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.
Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.
I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.
I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.
I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully
Evidently, this company are being a bit thick and in the conversation I had with their representative last Sunday he denied ever having seen such a letter. This is further evidenced by the fact that they continue to bombard me with calls and letters in regards to this matter.
Therefore, yesterday I took the next step and sent them a full SAR request. To ensure that they cannot deny receiving the latest letter, I decided to send it by recorded delivery. This went out yesterday and should be received by them this morning. My latest letter says:
Dear Sir or Madam:
ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXXX
YOUR REF: XXXXXXXXX
I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY
Despite my previous correspondence, a copy of which is enclosed for your reference, you continue to bombard me with unwanted phone-calls and letters in regard to this alleged debt. Therefore, you leave me with no alternative than to request that you send me a true copy of this credit agreement before I will correspond further on this matter.
This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request.
Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.
I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.
Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
For the sake of clarity, may I also draw your attention to the following:
Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.175
Where under this Act a person is deemed to receive a notice or payment as agent of the creditor or owner under the regulated agreement, he shall be deemed to be under a contractual duty to the creditor or owner to transmit the notice, or remit the payment, to him forthwith.
Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.
In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :
1. True copy of original signed executed credit agreement
2. FULL Statement of account
3. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from CIT and Red Castle Recoveries.
4. A fair processing notice.
As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.
Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.
Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment, and will be reported to the relevant authorities.
I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.
I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.
I look forward to hearing from you in writing.
Yours faithfully
So, have started the ball rolling to see exactly what they have and to find out where the second debt comes from. I shall be checking the IVA details later today to find the details for the known debt that is covered by the IVA and get my IVA agents to contact this company with a 'cease and desist' order as the debt is covered by the IVA.
The other debt I simply want to know where it came from as I have knowledge of this.
Will keep you all posted on progress.
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