nelliewops DCA/CCA

[nelliewops]

Hi Wendy,

Thank you for your response!

Both the cards are with DCAs - one has been since last year I believe, although back then OH shredded lots of nasty letters etc, so I hadn't realised that it was with a DCA till starting to deal with it all this year. The second card has only passed to a DCA since we started to reclaim our charges and OH was defaulted for non-payment.

We CCA'd MBNA for both cards in January 2009 and SAR'd them too.

In response we got the CCA for the second card (balance approx £6000) which we put in both a charges and a mis-sold PPI claim for.

The first card (the one already with the DCA) we heard nothing from MBNA. Two months later the DCA contacted us saying they had asked MBNA (as the OC) for the CCA and until MBNA forwarded to them and until then they considered the account to be in dispute and wouldn't chase us for repayment. We have heard nothing since, which is why we hadn't put in a claim for charges or PPI on this account as we didn't want to provoke them into action! The balance on this card is approx £3500 and the charges to be reclaimed are approx £900 (£1400 including contractual interest). The PPI is a similar amount.

At the end of May we received a cheque for the full amount claimed in charges from MBNA on the second card including contractual interest!

We have heard nothing from the DCA dealing with that card since March.

I am just worried that putting in a claim for the charges etc on the other card will make them suddenly remember us and start pursuing us for the balance on both cards again!

The SAR to MBNA only produced a list of transactions and charges - when we sent a non-compliance letter they asked for OH's passport/driving licence as proof of ID. We didn't follow this up.

We do also have some charges and mis-sold PPI on an M&S card, Sainsbury's card, Debenhams card and a Sainsbury's loan which are are closed/paid off which we are starting to put claims in for.

Sorry for another long post and thanks again for your help!

Nellie xxx

[WendyB]

Re: nellie v lloyds hardship claim

Well I may be wrong here, and Curlyben will no doubt come swooping in and put it straight lol, but if they haven't complied with your CCA request then you can legally cease payment to them anyway, until such times as a compliant CCA is produced. If this is the case, the debt won't go away, it just means it will be unenforceable.

Odd that MBNA sent you acheque, if there was a balance outstanding I would have thought they would have taken the charges off the balance. So there is a balance on both cards?

Definitely claim back the charges and PPI on the closed cards.

[Curlyben]

Re: nellie v lloyds hardship claim

yep your right there Wendy.

No CCA = No Enforceable Debt..
The cheque from MBNA does seem odd, but they may well of simply cut their loses and done the decent thing here.

[nelliewops]

Re: nellie v lloyds hardship claim

Hi Wendy and Curlyben,

Thank you very much for your help!

Yes, there is a balance on both cards - £3500 and £6000 approx.

So on the card with no CCA received, do you think I should risk it and ask for the charges and PPI back?

OH and I thought it was odd too that MBNA refunded on the other card in the form of a cheque when there is still a balance of £6000+, but thought that maybe it was because MBNA had sold the debt to a DCA so were no longer responsible for pursuing the debt?

We believe the assignment is absolute rather than equitable as the first letter we received from the DCA stated that they had 'purchased your account and all rights, interest and claims in respect of all amounts outstanding on this account', but I know very little about assignments etc.

Thanks again,

Nellie x

[Curlyben]

Re: nellie v lloyds hardship claim

Hi Wendy and Curlyben,

Thank you very much for your help!

Yes, there is a balance on both cards - £3500 and £6000 approx.

So on the card with no CCA received, do you think I should risk it and ask for the charges and PPI back? Not really advisable, as you haven't actually PAID these charges.. IF needed later they can be used to reduce the balance, but not at present..

OH and I thought it was odd too that MBNA refunded on the other card in the form of a cheque when there is still a balance of £6000+, but thought that maybe it was because MBNA had sold the debt to a DCA so were no longer responsible for pursuing the debt? Actually what normally would happen is the DCA simply removes the refund from the outstanding balance, so this is odd indeed.

We believe the assignment is absolute rather than equitable as the first letter we received from the DCA stated that they had 'purchased your account and all rights, interest and claims in respect of all amounts outstanding on this account', but I know very little about assignments etc. *Cough* yeah right.
Did MBNA actually say that they had sold this account to the DCA or was this simply the DCA's opening letter to you. There are strict rules for assignment to be valid and from recent experiences MBNA has a tendancy of NOT following them. Until they provide the require paperwork the assignment can be considered equitable. This is all academic anyway.

Thanks again,

Nellie x

Further comments in Blue.

As for assignment have a read of this thread for greater insight: Legal Beagles

So, have you tested ALL of the DCA held accounts via a CCA.
It's worth reading this thread as well: ~~~ Consumer Credit Agreements - A Guide ~~~~ inc. Letters - Legal Beagles

I'll get the DCA part of this thread moved so not to detract from the hardship side.

[nelliewops]

Re: nelliewops DCA/CCA

Hi Curlyben,

Thank you for moving the thread for me.

Right I won't do anything for now with regards to the charges and PPI on the other card as you suggest.

As for the card on which they have refunded the charges -

The timeline of actions is as follows - (I've been a bit vague in case anyone from MBNA is watching!)

Jan 2009 CCA requests sent for both cards

Early Feb Default notice received

Late Feb CCA received

Early March 2 letters in same envelope received - one from DCA with the 'purchased your account' wording, the other from MBNA stating that the letter is 'confirmation that your outstanding balance due under the above account has been assigned to' the DCA.

The account number quoted on both letters contained the same first 8 digits as OH's normal account number, but the last 8 digits were different. I have been told that when a DCA buys an account they assign their own number, but don't know if this is correct?

Middle/late March 2 further letters received from DCA.

Nothing heard from them since (fingers crossed!)

I will have a read of the threads you linked and try to absorb some more knowledge on the subject!

The only other accounts we have DCAs involved with are the one who has just contacted us re: the LTSB current account overdraft and another one who has made contact regarding the outstanding balances on our two LTSB loans.

We have the CCAs for both loans and they appear to have all the prescribed terms etc. We are in the process of reclaiming the PPI on these and will have to go to the FOS soon as LTSB has had more than the 8 weeks and is still delaying giving us a final response.

If you need any further background info, let me know.

Thanks again for your help,

Nellie x

[Curlyben]

Re: nelliewops DCA/CCA

Thanks for that.

Early March 2 letters in same envelope received - one from DCA with the 'purchased your account' wording, the other from MBNA stating that the letter is 'confirmation that your outstanding balance due under the above account has been assigned to' the DCA.

Classic DCA activity and non-compliant with Law of Property s136 as required for assignment..

The account number quoted on both letters contained the same first 8 digits as OH's normal account number, but the last 8 digits were different. I have been told that when a DCA buys an account they assign their own number, but don't know if this is correct?

Errr, nope. That doesn't sound right now does it ?!?! Sounds like someone is being economical with the truth here.

We have the CCAs for both loans and they appear to have all the prescribed terms etc. We are in the process of reclaiming the PPI on these and will have to go to the FOS soon as LTSB has had more than the 8 weeks and is still delaying giving us a final response.

Could you possibly scan and post the agreements and I'll give them a look see ??

[nelliewops]

Re: nelliewops DCA/CCA

Hi Curlyben,

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner, but I have been busy writing letters and dealing with the latest onslaught of mail received!

Unfortunately our scanner isn't working but I have a feeling that we did some time back load pics of one of the loan agreements onto photobucket so will has a look a bit later and try to get the link posted up.

Concerning one of the loan agreements, this morning I have received a letter from the DCA who has been chasing on behalf of LTSB, headed 'URGENT - final notice of intent' and asking for the full balance on the loan £6000+, otherwise they will consider issuing proceedings. It states that it is a final letter and no further warning or intimation will be given.

Now I do know that if it says 'consider issuing proceedings' it is possibly only a threat - but it has scared me somewhat I must admit and I don't know how I should deal with it.

Also in the post there was a letter from LTSB Insurance relating to PPI this same loan offering a rebate of unused premiums due to the fact that the policy was cancelled in May. They say that they are going to increase the amount offered at the time of cancelling (no offer was received and in fact it was actually March that it was cancelled). I have worked out that if their offer is still over £150 less than it should be. If accepted this will be credited to the loan account.

They are turning down my complaint that the PPI was mis-sold. However, this PPI was sold to me when I was a housewife - not employed in any way. They say that 'if a customer was eligible for the policy at start date then the customer's employment status could change during the course of that term and that person's cover would alter. If you were registered unemployed at point of sale then you would not have been eligible for the policy.'

I was not employed so surely the PPI would have been no use to me?

If you could offer any advice, particularly in how to deal with the DCA's letter I would be most grateful!

Thank you,

Nellie x

[Curlyben]

Re: nelliewops DCA/CCA

I know these DCA letter can be scary, but don't worry.
They will NOT be taking action for the full amount as LTSB have already said they would be making a refund. Make sure you keep this letter secure as it would blow the DCA's case out of the water, if it's needed.

LTSB can be a pian when it comes to PPI, but you just need to assert your rights in this case.


For the DCA you could send them a dispute notice as you clearly have an ongoing issue with LTSB.

something like this:

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir/Madam,

Your ref:


Thank you for your letter of **DATE**, the contents of which are noted.


As holders of a Consumer Credit Licence you are obliged to comply with the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines on Debt Collection. I would therefore be obliged if you would provide me with an explanation as to why you are attempting to collect on an alleged debt which was disputed with BANK NAME prior to your first contact with me, and has yet to be resolved.
Since this is considered an unfair practice and contrary to the OFT guidelines, you should consider this letter as a formal complaint, and provide me with a copy of your complaint resolution procedure.
I also require you to confirm that you will now comply with the OFT guidelines, and will not attempt any further collection activity whilst the dispute is unresolved.

Should you fail to provide me with the required undertaking within 7 days, I shall report your breach of the OFT guidelines to Trading Standards and complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Take notice that I will not discuss this matter on the telephone, and all further communication must be in writing. Any telephone calls will be perceived as harassment, and dealt with accordingly.

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

[nelliewops]

Re: nelliewops DCA/CCA

Hi Curlyben,

Thank you for the letter - will get that off to them tomorrow, I'm all lettered out today having just completed a huge complaint to the FSA Waivers Team re: Lloyds treatment of our hardship case, plus one to the DCA chasing the o/d and another to M&S for charges on a closed account!

So do you think that even though the only refund LTSB have offered is for the unused PPI premiums that still counts as the account being in dispute as far as the DCA is concerned?

Will sort out the photobucket pics later.

Thanks again,

Nellie xxx

[Curlyben]

Re: nelliewops DCA/CCA

Hi Curlyben,

Thank you for the letter - will get that off to them tomorrow, I'm all lettered out today having just completed a huge complaint to the FSA Waivers Team re: Lloyds treatment of our hardship case, plus one to the DCA chasing the o/d and another to M&S for charges on a closed account! No worries sounds like you are busy. I can see us having fun here

So do you think that even though the only refund LTSB have offered is for the unused PPI premiums that still counts as the account being in dispute as far as the DCA is concerned? Too blloming right. after all the value of the debt is incorrect and you are chasing a PPI refund. Now if that isn't a dispute I don't know what is !!

Will sort out the photobucket pics later. That would be cool

Thanks again,

Nellie xxx

Comments in Blue

[nelliewops]

Re: nelliewops DCA/CCA

Hi Curlyben,

I found the pics of our LTSB loan CCA s on photobucket - hope this works ok! Have banked out personal info, loan amounts etc..........






Best wishes,

Nellie x

[Curlyben]

Re: nelliewops DCA/CCA

Well for starters neither comply with CCA as there is no total cost of credit !!!
Also the restricted use PPI and repayment parts should be separated out from the rest of the loan amount as per s18 CCA.
Fails under Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations SI 1983/1553 Sched 1(9) and that's just on a quick scan !!

Oh dear me.
You would of thought that this would be kosher wouldn't you ?!?!

[nelliewops]

Re: nelliewops DCA/CCA

Hi Curlyben!

Thank you for taking a look at my pics and for your comments.

Bearing what you've said in mind, does this mean they would still be enforceable by a court? I'm not really au fait with the whole business of the regs regarding separate agreements for loan and PPI - I did try to get my head around it on Cag, but didn't really understand I'm afraid. Also, where does this leave me with regards to the PPI issue please? Any further help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,

Nellie x

[nelliewops]

Re: nelliewops DCA/CCA

Hi Curlyben!

Thank you for taking a look at my pics and for your comments.

Bearing what you've said in mind, does this mean they would still be enforceable by a court? I'm not really au fait with the whole business of the regs regarding separate agreements for loan and PPI - I did try to get my head around it on Cag, but didn't really understand I'm afraid. Also, where does this leave me with regards to the PPI issue please? Any further help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,

Nellie x

Hi there,

If anyone could offer any advice on the above I would be most grateful, thank you!

Nellie x