Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

[osman612]

Hi everyone,

Hope someone out there can help. I've recently received a CCJ claim form from Howard Cohen and Co for a GE Money debt and need some advice about how to defend it.

In short the CCJ is for a Burton store card, and I accept that I have to pay it and am willing to do so. However, I'd like to know if there's a way I can reduce the amount I have to pay based on the fact that this account has received quite alot of £30 penalty charges for overlimit/missed payment fees etc.

Can I state on the form that I wish to defend part of the claim and use the fact that the £30 charges have been proved to be unlawful, then work out how many charges I've received and have the difference between £30 and £12 for each charge knocked off the total debt?

Thanks in advance!

[Curlyben]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

Back up and start from the beginning here. Have they actually got the CCJ or simply filed action ?

Cohens are well know for file bad claims as they do so in bulk.
Could you post up the POC and the appropriate dates and we'll go from there.

A partial admission will result in a CCJ, so you might as well fight them and see what happens.
Either way the result could be the same, BUT you might actually win.
Also the debt is owed to GE and NOT Cohens/CL financial. They must be put to strict proof that the debt they are chasing is valid and enforceable against you.

[osman612]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

Hi there,

Thanks for your reply, sorry I was less than 100% clear but this is the first time I've had to deal with something like this so bear with me!

Right, so they haven't got the CCJ yet, I've received a notice from the Northampton bulk centre.

The POC is as follows:

The claimant's claim is for the sum of 976.96 being monies due from the defendant under a regulated credit agreement between the defendant and GE Capital Bank Limited under reference xxxxxxx and assigned to the claimant on the 13th of May 2009 notice of which has been given to the defendant.

The defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon defendant pursuant to section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Pursuant to clause 7 of the agreement, the claimant also claims contractual interest at a rate of 0.000% per annum from the date of these proceedings to the date of judgement, or sooner payment, accruing at a daily rate of 0.00

I have left it quite late, seeing as I only received the notice a few days ago (was sent to an old address, redirected mail isn't great) so the issue date is 28th May 2009

Many thanks for your help.

[Curlyben]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

Not a problem.
You have 14 days after service to file your acknowledgement of service, so that's Thursday 11th.
After filing the AoS you have a further 14 days to file the defence, so the 25th June, latest.

As ever the POC is woeful and Cohens must be put to task.
Firstly fire off a request under CPR 31.14 requesting the documents mentioned in the POC.
So in this case the following:

• Agreement
• Default Notice
• Notice of Assignment

There's more details on how to do that here: DCA: Using CPR 31.14 to Your Advantage - Consumer Wiki

Get that fired off and we'll go from there.

Now I need to know your intentions, especially after reading my earlier post.
This will make a difference to how you will file the AoS.

I do like the way they haven't given you enough time to even come up with a payment plan.
They should of sent a letter before action after the assignment on the 13th, giving you 14 days to respond. So that would of been the 27 th..

[osman612]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

Thanks for the quick reply. What I intend to do is pay the debt over a number of months, but I want to reduce the amount I have to pay as the balance includes quite a few charges of the nasty £30 variety. I'm not averse to having a CCJ on my record, as I've no intention of taking out any further credit for quite some time.

I'll get started on the CPR.

[Curlyben]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

Thanks for the quick reply. What I intend to do is pay the debt over a number of months, but I want to reduce the amount I have to pay as the balance includes quite a few charges of the nasty £30 variety. I'm not averse to having a CCJ on my record, as I've no intention of taking out any further credit for quite some time.

Admirable indeed, but who should you pay ??
The original creditor GE money, or the company that has just filed court action against you ??

There in lies a dilemma.
Moral Vs Legal.

Yes you acknowledge a debt to pay and you are willing to come to an arrangement, BUT the OC has basically washed their hands of you and passed it on to a well known DCA for legal action.
If you intention is to simply pay, CCJ or not, then simply do nothing and they will get a default judgement against you.
OR FIGHT them and make them prove their legal rights to this debt.

Did the DCA ever give you a chance to pay before they started action ???

[osman612]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

Well yes the debt has been outstanding for a while and was passed from DCA to DCA and finally to Howard Cohen & Co. The latter sent me a notice of assignment 6 days before filing action. Previously I had written to GE Money advising them that I'd be making token payments of £10 a month and it even showed up as "partial payment" on statements they kept sending me. They never replied to that letter, and in April the token payment didn't reach them which I think is why they're taking action. There was the necessary money in my account, my bank statement just says "rejected from GE Money".

Then again if I could legally avoid paying the debt or at least argue the toss and pay a smaller amount then I'm up for that.

[Curlyben]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

I am in no way suggesting debt avoidance here, but use of a very powerful piece of consumer protection, the Consumer Credit Act.
You have correctly attempted payment and been reasonable, but GE just doesn't want anything further to do with this account, so the Moral argument is now out of the window.

That only leaves the Legal route, which Cohens have started..

Let me guess, did this "notice of assignment" simply say that CL had purchased your account and that all payments should now be sent to them, and was it on CL or Cohens letter head

[osman612]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

Yep, it was on a Cohens letterhead and stated that they / CL finance had been assigned the account and I had to pay them to avoid court action. They didn't give any time frame for me to do so, it is a strange letter as it looks like two letters bulked into one.

Do you think then that I should state in the AoS that I want to defend all of the claim or part of it?

Also as part of my plan to reduce the amount outstanding by whatever excessive penalty charges I've accured I'll need a list of all transactions on my account. Do you think I could work that into the CPR?

[Curlyben]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

Well that sounds like a classic CL Notice of Assignment and, honestly, is meaningless !!
Have a read of this thread for more information: Legal Beagles

If you want a CCJ then enter a partial admission, personally, I wouldn't as that would be admitting defeat from the get go.

Leave the CPR exactly as it is. The issue of charges is for the defence (maybe) assuming Cohens fully comply and prove they are legally entitled to collect on this debt.
Just because they say they are solicitors doesn't mean they are acting lawfully..

[WendyB]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

If you want a list of charges you will need to send SAR.

Not sure if you would need to pusue this as a separate claim, or just use it as a bargaining tool later. What's the score with this CB?

[osman612]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

Thanks a million, you are an absolute legend! I only hope that one day I'm in a position to help someone out the way you are.

I'm presently amending and printing out the CPR.

[Curlyben]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

So what's the plan then ?

[WendyB]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

Have just had another think on this, and what i think is this

While it's all very commendable you wanting to pay your debts, (and maybe you will, at a later date), if I were you I would definitely not do a partial admission. Admit nothing. They have gone about this completely back tofront with absolutley no effort to folow correct procedure etc. They have given you no chance at all to make a reasobale offer to pay. So why do you feel you should play fair with them? If you do a partial acknowledgement now, you are guaranteed a CCJ. Maybe you don't plan on having any credit for some time, but life doesn't always go to plan does it.or your credit record is already shot to pieces but adding another CCJ won't help.

It's moral versus legal. As they have already shown they are bankrupt in the morals department, I truly wouldn't worry about that. Fight this first, if and when you get them to see sense (or a judge does) then cross the penalty charges bridge.
IMHO

[osman612]

Re: Defending a CCJ and penalty charges

Thanks Wendy. The plan is to file an AoS saying that I'm going to defend the full amount, send off the CPR letter and wait. If they comply and send through valid documentation, then I'll contest the charges and arrange to pay the rest. Either that or I could try to make a reduced offer to them, never know it might work.

If that doesn't work then I'll set up a payment plan with them. In the meantime I'm going to keep up with the £10 a month token payments (I assume this is still reaching my account, in all if the situation lasts three months £30 is a price I'm willing to pay if I later rely on my reduced payments in a defense)