DougalT and the CCA

[Dougal16T]

HELP!!! and Good evening everyone,

I've 'lost the plot' a bit (to say the least!), and I need some help.....please.

I've been reading 'til I'm blue in the face, but the questions I would like to find an answer to are these:

(a) If the debt that you owe on your credit/store card is sold to a third party (DCA), can that DCA request you to make payments towards the outstanding balance which they have purchased (albeit for avery nominal fee, probably), if they are not in possession of a certified true copy of the original agreement that you had with the credit/store card company?

(b) If you have naively agreed to pay the DCA and done so for some time, then requested a copy of the agreement in question - and they are unable to produce this - and write to you in terms similar to these 'we are unable to retrieve a copy of your original agreement from credit/store card company and are therefore returning our papers to them'. Was an offence committed by the DCA in pressurising you into making a payment arrangement with them, when they did not have the agreement or a copy of the agreement that you made with the original credit/store card company?

It seems to me that there has been an awful lot of this going on in the credit industry by these, sometimes unscrupulous debt collection agencies - and I am sorry to say, I think it may have happened to me.

The critical point is this : are they collecting a debt to which they have no rights?

I apologise for this post, but I cannot find the answer to this question!!!

Best wishes to everyone,

Dougal

[Amethyst]

Re: DCA Awards

Dougal - don't apologise for asking for help - EVER !

I'm a bit lost though - both those questions sound like the debts unenforceable.


What are YOUR specific circumstances with these debts ?


If you'd prefer to do some more reading ll - then hunt out Tools v Simply Be thread on Beagles...I assume you have read Curly and Toms guides to dealing with DCA's and CCA ..... should give you some thoughts.

[Dougal16T]

Re: DCA Awards

Good evening,


Basically if the DCA never had a copy of the original agreement between the debtor and the creditor, then can the DCA still legally request payment from the debtor (having 'bought' the debt) if the DCA was not given and did not obtain a copy of the original agreement at the time the debt was acquired?

Best wishes

Dougal

[Amethyst]

Re: DCA Awards

No.

If you CCA'd them they would have to get the CCA from the OC - if there isnt one then unenforceable debt, if there is they will then have a copy. They also need a Deed of Assignment.

Am sure Curly will correct me if I'm in need of a brain transplant here.

[Curlyben]

Re: DCA Awards

Ame, pretty much right.
Some DCA's do indeed purchase the agreement along with the account.
Also to fully comply with CCA request they MUST supply a statement of account and any other documents referred to in the agreement.
Now we also request the Deed of Assignment, and even a Fair Processing Notice, at the same time, but these are NOT covered by the CCA request, so the DCA doesn't have to comply with this part of the request.

Bear in mind that the Good Bye/Hello letters serve as the Notice of Assignment to the DCA from the OC. IMHO these are meaningless and if legal action was ever started then a CPR18 for the DoA, Original agreement, etc would be a prerequisite.

If the DCA fails to comply with your CCA then they can take a long walk off Weston pier

[Dougal16T]

Re: DCA Awards

Good afternoon all,

Thanks for the replies - BUT I am obviously not phrasing the question very well:

Let's be hypothetical:

DCA buys debt from OC, but does not obtain/have copy of/original agreement. DCA tells debtor that they have the debt (no mention of agreement) and asks for payment/payment proposals from debtor.

Question: Can DCA request debtor to enter into a payment arrangement if DCA does not have and cannot obtain copy of/original agreement?

Hope this helps.....

Looking forward to replies.......


Best wishes and thanks to all

Dougal

[Curlyben]

Re: DCA Awards

Can DCA request debtor to enter into a payment arrangement if DCA does not have and cannot obtain copy of/original agreement?

Yes !!
Happens alot I'm afraid, hence the standing advice when dealing with DCA's to request the CCA to ensure they have the legal right to collect.

Obviously if they cannot obtain said agreement then they are burgered.

[Dougal16T]

Re: DCA Awards

Good morning all,

Now then, just to expand my limited thinking a little.....if the DCA cannot provide a properly executed Deed of Assignment, then they have been (IMO) obtaining money from the Debtor by deception.

Perhaps this is another angle to the question I was asking....???

What say you, my friends?

Best wishes as ever

Dougal

[Curlyben]

Re: DCA Awards

There is ZERO requirement under CCA for the DCA to provide the Deed of Assignment at all, so to answer your question, NO.

The only time the DoA would have any bearing is during legal action, as and if, the DCA were taking action in their own name then the assignment MUST be absolute and properly documented.

[Dougal16T]

Re: DCA Awards

Thanks for the response,

However I have been reading that if the DCA cannot provide a copy of a properly executed Deed of Assignment if requested by the debtor, then the debtor can show that the DCA has been 'unjustly enriched' and the debtor can claim back monies paid to the DCA!!

Please bear in mind this only impinges on the CCA as far as the request for information is concerned, and once that information fails to be provided then the whole issue becomes, in my view, a problem for the DCA in view of my paragraph above.

Just thought this might make for some interesting thoughts and research perhaps??

Best wishes to all

Dougal

[Curlyben]

Re: DCA Awards

However I have been reading that if the DCA cannot provide a copy of a properly executed Deed of Assignment if requested by the debtor, then the debtor can show that the DCA has been 'unjustly enriched' and the debtor can claim back monies paid to the DCA!!

I have got to ask where you have seen this ?
As I say there is no legal requirement for the DCA to provide this document under normal circumstances.

[Dougal16T]

Re: DougalT and the CCA

Morning everyone,

Thanks for the question.....the problem is I cannot remember!!! I think it was on CAG, but I cannot locate it now. However turning to the Data Protection Act, I seem to recall that a request to the DCA under this Act for copies of all information held by them in relation to the account in question must produce the Deed of Assignment by virtue of the contents of the DPA...am I barking again???

I've just got this bee in my bonnet about this, because IF what I think/have read is true and accurate then DCA's could be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006. (I know what you are thinking...here he goes again...) BUT - what if I'm right.

The CCA is good, but I still think that other legislation needs to be considered, when dealing with these problems that arise with DCA's and the like. S.3 of the Fraud Act 2006 is certainly worth a read......any thoughts on my ramblings...??

Best wishes to everyone

Dougal

p.s.: REMEMBER it's your money you are after!

[Curlyben]

Re: DougalT and the CCA

I'm sorry to say, but there is alot of misinformation concerning DCA's and what is possible.
I believe that quite a bit is banded about by the Ambulance Chaser, no names mentioned, that promise the earth and deliver nowt.

Dealing with a DCA should be as simple and painless as possible. Starting legal action against them due to lack of paperwork seems like a needless exercise.

Bear in mind the DoA is only really needed in the case of an Absolute Assignment under Law of Property 1925.

Under agent or equitable assignment there is NO DoA as there is no requirement for it.

I'm sorry to say, but I think you are barking here.

There is already alot of statute we can use against DCA's as well as CCA;

Administration of Justice Act 1970 s40
Protection from Harassment Act
Communications Act 2004
CPUTR 2008 (haven't finished with this one yet so not sure on the angles)

IMHO the Fraud Act, while good, isn't really appropriate in most of these cases.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: DougalT and the CCA

I am reading this at moment not sure if its been superceeded?

Misrepresentation Act 1967 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatut..._19670007_en_1

Perhaps not for use with a DCA but I am thinking more along the lines of mis-selling by lenders.

[Curlyben]

Re: DougalT and the CCA

I think Misrep was included in Fraud 2006