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Shira v Cap1 **** settled *****

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  • Shira v Cap1 **** settled *****

    Hiya everyone,
    Submitted MCOL for mine last May & hubbys accounts following day. My hubby got full refund from them 5 weeks later. I am so surprised that they only send me a cheq of £369.32 instead of £872.32, so sent the cheq back to them saying that I am not accepted & I m still going ahead with the court etc. But I think I must have done something wrong with the spreadsheet cos my laptop packed up (I could have print the spreadsheet out in the first place!) but anyway I done the spreadsheet again from my son’s laptop, it was a bit higher than the original one for the POC (my mistake??)
    Rang the court up, they said the judge will looked at it on on 5th July, & rang them again following week, they said it’s been transfer to another court department and will get a letter from them shortly.

    Right, Cap 1 letter arrived yesterday, see below. (So sorry it is a long letter and I need some advice about this please) Thanks

    4th July 2008!! (received 11th)
    Dear Shira,
    Court Claim no. XXXXXX
    Claimant: Shira
    Defendant: Crap 1

    I am writing in reference to the claim that you’ve issued against Crap 1 bank (Euro) plc. In response to ur letter dated 17th June, I confirm that we have received the cheq for £487.08.

    I’ve reviewed ur claim & see that it is for the sum of £872.32, comprising of the following:
    1) A refund of default fees charged to ur credit card account in the sum of £443;
    2) Interest at the rate of 8% from the date of each charge in the sum of £369.32, and statutory interest accruing at a daily rate of £0.097 and
    3) Court costs.

    On a without admission basis as a gesture of goodwill we’ve agreed to pay the following amounts in settlement of ur claim:

    1) All default fees charged to your credit card account in the sum of £371
    2) The interest charged on the default fees in the sum of £20.18
    3) Statutory intrest on the default fees at 8% per annum totalling £35.90 and
    4) Court fees of £60

    In your letter of 17 June 2008 you have said that your particulars of claim clearly state the arguments to support your claim and justification for payment of compound interest.

    We have already agreed to pay the default sums in their entirety and therefore they are no longer a disputed issue. You have made no representations as to interest, save for that of statutory interest for which you are entitled to claim. As such we will not pay you compound interest.

    Notwithstanding the fact you have not pleaded compound interest, we do not consider that you are entitled to claim such and that any claim for this would be successful.

    Our position is supported by the High Court decision in the case of Halliday v HBOS plc. In the that case the Judge rejected the claimant’s claim for compound interest at the bank’s contractual rate and instead awarded the claimant simple interest at the statutory rate 8%. Mr Justice Underhill stated that a term relating to compound contractual interest would only be implied where it was “necessary” to do so and it was not necessary in a bank, customer relationship. In addition, Mr Justice Underhill found there was no custom and usage on which to justify implying such a term.

    In addition to the statutory interest that we have paid, we have also refunded the interest actually charged on the default fees.

    We ve agreed to refund all the fees charged to your account on a without admission basis. These fees were only applied to your account as a result of you breaching your agreement by failing to maker your minimum payment and/or make payments on time and/or make payments on time and/or keep within your credit limit.

    If Capital 1’s fees were found to be unfair (which is denied), your breach of agreement entitles Cap 1 to claim from you the losses suffered as a result of your breach. However we have not sought to claim these losses from you.

    In light of the above in our view your claim has been settled in full. We have acted entirely reasonably and have refunded over and above the amount you are entitled to claim in an attempt to resolve this matter.

    We are confident in our decision to defend this matter and believe that it is vexatious and disproportionate to pursue this claim on the basis that you are entitled to compound interest of which you have made no reference to in your particulars of claim.

    In order to avoid greater costs and taking up further court time we invite you to accept our offer of £487.08 in full and final settlement and ask that you discontinue your claim. A copy of this letter has been sent to the court

    Raachael Howey
    Legal dept

  • #2
    Re: Shira v Cap 1

    Hi Shira,
    Welcome to the site.
    Sorry I can't really comment on your claim as, I am not clued up on Contractual Int.
    I think someone who is more in the know will be along soon to help you out with this.
    Enaid x

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Shira v Cap 1

      Hi Bev,

      Please could you send me a copy of your spreadsheet and a copy of your POC either via PM or via email. ( Please remove your personal details )

      As you entered your claim via MCOL you could only enter a shortened version of the POC. I would be interested to see exactly how you worded this.

      I believe you prepared your claim using the RUC spreadsheet. Their spreadsheet wrongly calculates compound interest so I would like to check exactly what you have claimed and how it has been calculated. You might like to try using my compound interest spreadsheet on this site and see how it compares to the RUC one.

      The letter you have received is a very standard response from Capital One.

      I look forward to receiving you rinformation and will then let you know all the options you have for going forward.

      Rgds Budgie

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Shira v Cap 1

        Hi Shira,

        Your claim is fine useing the RUC spread sheet. I used it and got paid out.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Shira v Cap 1

          Hi Shira please be confident in knowing the spreadsheet you used is OK
          I did 3 very large bank claims using RUC spreadsheet and won them all I have also won claims for other people using the same spreadsheet
          Good Luck

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Shira v Cap 1

            Just a bit confused here. You say that you received a cheque for 369.32 and returned it to them, but in their letter they acknowledge receipt of a cheque from you for 487.08?? Have they got this the right way round?

            Also your amount for fees charged to your card differs from theirs by £72.00. If I remember rightly they used to charge £18 a pop for late payments etc so this is the total of 4 charges. Do you agree this difference with them? Or are they trying it on here as well.

            With regards to compound interest, you are in the right hands with Budgie on the case regarding your POC. But fwiw, I think if you didn't mention it in your intial letters, and if its not in the POC then perhaps it might not get much further.
            Is no longer here

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Shira v Cap 1

              Hi Shira,

              Thanks for emailing me your documents.

              I understand what has happened with your claim. I have popped you an email back tonight and am waiting on a couple of answers from you before I post up some advice. Don't worry it's not too complicated :tinysmile_twink_t2:

              Could you also please let me know if it will be OK if I post up a copy of your POC and spreadsheet and your letter on this thread, it will help me to explain things and make it a lot clearer to others reading your thread?

              In the meantime attached is a spreadsheet ( my own version - similar to the ones which are available for download on LB and which have been approved by LB ). I have just posted this spreadsheet up for general information at this stage. I will do a custom version for you to use in sorting out your claim.

              Your charges total £443

              Calculated up to today using my spreadsheet :

              Statutory Court interest due on these charges would be £171.95 or
              Compounded daily interest at 8% pa due on these charges would be £210.95

              Note : The interest figure calculated up to today using an RUC spreadsheet would be £364.01

              I have no desire for this thread to degenerate into a slanging match over the rights and wrongs of the RUC spreadsheet.

              Sam and Ellis27, you have the figures above, if you wish to discuss the merits of the various spreadsheets or indeed if you feel you can explain the differences between the various interest figures and justify the higher interest figure generated by the RUC spreadsheet then please feel free to start a new thread, I will quite happy to debate the matter with you. This is Shira's thread and my only desire is to help her sort out the dilemma that she has with her claim.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Shira v Cap 1

                Hi WendyB,
                Thanks for your reply, Sorry it was my miskate, the cheq was for £487.08 not £360.32. Sorry!

                Budgie, of course you can post the copies of the letter, POC & the spreadsheet in my thread please

                Thanks
                regards Shira

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Shira v Cap 1

                  Hi Shira,

                  Thanks for the email this morning.

                  You have confirmed that you intended to claim statutory Court interest only!

                  Problems have occurred because you have mixed up and modifed letters and spreadsheets and POC's normally used for claiming compound interest and have made a few mistakes whilst doing this. The combined effect of this is to create a confused situation which Cap One are taking advantage of as evidenced in their letter to you.

                  Below is the text of the POC you used when filing your claim via MCOL :-

                  The Claimant holds acc no.xxxxxxxxx with defendant . From July 2002 to October 2004 Defendant debited charges iro of purported breaches of contact.
                  Defendant has been supplied with list of charges and interest. Claimant contends:
                  aThe charges exceed the Defendants losses caused by such breaches
                  bThe Term permitting the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable under Unfair Terms in Consumer Contacts Regulations 1999, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law.
                  cIf charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.
                  Claimant claims:
                  a)Return of amount charged of £443.00.
                  b)Interest from date of filing claim to date of settlement or earlier judement at daily rate of £0.097
                  d)Costs allowed by the Court.

                  Amount claimed 812.32, Court fee 60.00 Total amount 872.32

                  Here is my suggestion for how the text of the POC should have read, for a claim entered by MCOL and based upon claiming statutory Court interest only :-

                  The Claimant holds acc no.xxxxxxxxx with the defendant .
                  From July 2002 to October 2004 Defendant debited default charges in respect of purported breaches of contact.

                  Defendant has been supplied with list of charges and interest.

                  Claimant contends:
                  a) The charges exceed the Defendants losses caused by such breaches
                  b) The Terms permitting the Defendant to levy such charges are unenforceable under UTCCR1999 and at Common Law.

                  Claimant claims:

                  a) Repayment of the default charges of £443.00
                  b) Interest pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum, from the date of each charge to the date of filing claim of £xxxx
                  c) Interest at the same rate from the date of filing claim to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £x.xx
                  d)Costs allowed by the Court.

                  Total of claim £xxx.xx ( A+B)
                  Court fee 60.00



                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  You used an RUC compound interest spreadsheet to calculate the interest portion of your claim.

                  As you are only claiming S69 statutory court interest, you shouldn't have used this spreadsheet.

                  I suggest we exactly recalculate the statutory interest portion of your claim.

                  Attached is a new spreadsheet for you to use which does all the work for you.

                  I have already added in the basic charges, you need to correct the dates for each charge so as to read the exact date of each charge ( this should be on your Capital One paperwork).

                  Change the "date to calculate interest up to" to the date you actually filed your claim via MCOL.

                  You will then have correctly calculated the statutory interest due on all your charges from the date of each charge to the date you filed your claim via MCOL. The spreadsheet also calculates the forward daily rate for you from the date of filing your claim to the date of Judgment or earlier settlement.


                  Budgie
                  Last edited by Budgie; 14th July 2008, 12:36:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Shira v Cap 1

                    OK

                    To try and sort this situation out I would suggest you send a new letter to Capital One ( copy it to the Court )

                    Explain that you have made an error when submitting your claim.
                    That you intend to write to the Court to request permission to submit a revised and corrected version of your claim.

                    You could say to Capital One that you note they have offered to settle your claim based on refunding all of your charges, plus all the purchase interest applied to your account plus statutory interest plus the court fee.

                    You could suggest in the letter that before you formally contact the court to seel permission to revise and correct your claim they may wish to settle your claim based upon your revised figures and therefore avoid any further waste of your, their or the Court's valuable time and resources.

                    Then detail out the new figures for your claim ( you could basically just list your reworded POC and include a copy of your new statutory interest spreadsheet and summarise the new total amount of your claim in written form )

                    I think it's worth a try doing this before you actually contact the Court to officially try and modify your claim. You never know they may just pay you out.
                    If you have to apply to the Court for permission to modify your claim then so be it. The Court will probably allow you to do this anyway.

                    I will give you some time to digest my posts.

                    Please feel free to fire away with any questions.

                    Rgds Budgie

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Shira v Cap 1

                      Hi Budgie,
                      Thank you for taking so much trouble, but when i double checked the POC and I have missed some of the words so I have added them on (highlighted in red)

                      The Claimant holds acc no.xxxxxxxxx with defendant . From July 2002 to October 2004 Defendant debited charges iro of purported breaches of contact.
                      Defendant has been supplied with list of charges and interest. Claimant contends:
                      aThe charges exceed the Defendants losses caused by such breaches
                      bThe Term permitting the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable under Unfair Terms in Consumer Contacts Regulations 1999, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law.
                      cIf charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.
                      Claimant claims:
                      a)Return of amount charged of £443.00.
                      b)Interest from date of each charge to date offiling claim at 8% totalling £369.32
                      c)Statutory interest from date of filing claim to date of settlement or earlier judgement at daily rate of £0.097
                      d)Costs allowed by the Court.


                      Thanks

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Shira v Cap 1

                        Thanks Shira,

                        That doesn't change things too much.

                        In the POC you didn't specify the type of interest you were claiming in b). ie Section 69 statutory court interest or compound interest.

                        You had used the RUC version of a compound interest spreadsheet ( probably sent this to Capital One as well ) to calculate what you probably thought or had been led to think was statutory court interest. You also made an error and mentioned compound interest in your letter to them of 17th June ( I actually recognise that letter by the way, it's virtually identical to an original letter I wrote to Capital One ) it's on my thread in VIP so must have been cribbed from there by someone. LOL

                        Cap One have twisted all of this to their advantage. Combined it with what is for them a stadard template letter and added some salt and pepper. This is typical Cap One tactics. The letter they sent to you contains identical paragraphs to those contained in letters they have sent to me in connection with my own claim ( they must love cutting and pasting ).

                        Am pretty sure we can get this sorted, after all they have already agreed they will pay you back your charges, plus purchase interest plus statutory interest ( even though they have calculated the stat interest incorrectly ). They have also already offered to pay back your court fee.

                        So I think if you produce a proper stat interest spready and work on a letter as I have suggested we may be able to get them to settle your claim at the correct figure. For the sake of a letter and a bit of work it's worth a try, don't you think?

                        Budgie

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Shira v Cap 1

                          Thanks Budgie

                          Now I think understand what it's all about. Ok I have done the spreadsheet, is possible to check it for me to see if I done them right please.

                          Many Thanks
                          Regard
                          Shira

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Shira v Cap 1

                            Of course !

                            Pop it through on an email and will check it for you and then post up here if you like.

                            Rgds Budgie

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Shira v Cap 1

                              Thanks Budgie,

                              Ok, the spreadsheet showed
                              Total of Charges ... £443.00
                              Total of Statutory court Interest (8%?) .... 171.17
                              Ongoing daily statutory court interest to use £0.10

                              Total 614.17 plus court fee £60.00 = £674.00
                              So they own me £674.00 not £487.08 or £812.00! .

                              The POC should have read like this?
                              The Claimant holds acc no xxxx with the defendant
                              From July 2002 to Oct 2004 Defendant debited default charges in respect of purported breaches of contact.

                              Defendant has been supplied with list of charges and interest.
                              Claimant contends:
                              a)The charges exceed the Defendants losses caused by such breaches
                              b)The Terms permitting the Defendant to levy such charges are unenforceable under UTCCR1999
                              Claimant claims
                              a)Repyment of the default charges of £443.00
                              b)Interest pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum, from the date of each charge to the date of filing claim of £171.17
                              c) Interest at the same rate from the date of filing claim to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.10
                              d)Cost allowed by the Court

                              Total of claim £614.17 (a+b)
                              Court fee £60.00

                              Thanks Shira
                              Last edited by Shira; 14th January 2009, 13:28:PM.

                              Comment

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