Credit card charge refund refused by FOS adjudicator - next step?

[johndoh]

Hi there,

Just to give a brief background:

I had a credit card with Halifax a number of years back, I've tried to reclaim all the £12 fees, they've said no. I've gone to the FOS and I'll talk about that in a second.

I went to another forum to ask for help about this matter and some people said they had an instant good result with the FOS. Apparently this is because it costs the banks £500 to have an adjudicator look at the case and if the cost of the charges is lower than the £500 they have tended to pay that.

However in my case this has not happened, the case has been sent to an adjudicator who says the charges reflect their costs and are fair.

Aside from people saying they've had an instant good result, the only "help" I am getting on the other forum is a couple of IFA's pretty much saying that the charges are fair - and good on the banks for taking a stand and not paying out because it's less than £500, taking a short term loss to stop toe rag chancers like me trying to get money they're not entitled to.

So I thought I'd try this forum on the offchance there's, shall we say, more helpful people.

I personally don't see how the £12 charge is an accurate reflection of the cost to the bank of failure to pay and I don't believe I should be treated badly for trying to claim the money back - after all these banks make a huge amount of money whilst at the same time sodomising the public, what's wrong with trying to claim these charges back?

I wrote to the adjudicator asking for a copy of the information Bank of Scotland gave them that proves the charges are fair, and the response I got was that BoS has requested the information be kept confidential and they will not disclose the information. Pretty intriguing from my POV, what do they have to hide?

I now have two choices available to me: Get the case passed to an ombudsman who will most likely say the same thing, or go to the small claims court. Seeing as if they contested the claim in the court they would have to publically disclose this evidence they gave to the FOS what are the chances of me winning uncontested?

Thanks for reading and also for any constructive help.

[leclerc]

Re: Credit card charge refund refused by FOS adjudicator - next step?

Hi there,

Just to give a brief background:

I had a credit card with Halifax a number of years back, I've tried to reclaim all the £12 fees, they've said no. I've gone to the FOS and I'll talk about that in a second.

I went to another forum to ask for help about this matter and some people said they had an instant good result with the FOS. Apparently this is because it costs the banks £500 to have an adjudicator look at the case and if the cost of the charges is lower than the £500 they have tended to pay that.

However in my case this has not happened, the case has been sent to an adjudicator who says the charges reflect their costs and are fair.

Aside from people saying they've had an instant good result, the only "help" I am getting on the other forum is a couple of IFA's pretty much saying that the charges are fair - and good on the banks for taking a stand and not paying out because it's less than £500, taking a short term loss to stop toe rag chancers like me trying to get money they're not entitled to.

So I thought I'd try this forum on the offchance there's, shall we say, more helpful people.

I personally don't see how the £12 charge is an accurate reflection of the cost to the bank of failure to pay and I don't believe I should be treated badly for trying to claim the money back - after all these banks make a huge amount of money whilst at the same time sodomising the public, what's wrong with trying to claim these charges back?

I wrote to the adjudicator asking for a copy of the information Bank of Scotland gave them that proves the charges are fair, and the response I got was that BoS has requested the information be kept confidential and they will not disclose the information. Pretty intriguing from my POV, what do they have to hide?

I now have two choices available to me: Get the case passed to an ombudsman who will most likely say the same thing, or go to the small claims court. Seeing as if they contested the claim in the court they would have to publically disclose this evidence they gave to the FOS what are the chances of me winning uncontested?

Thanks for reading and also for any constructive help.

A lot of banks have provided confidential information to the FOS which basically gives an exact cost of processing charges which, in many cases, is over and above the £12 threshold of intervention. BoS are part of LloydsTSB and they are the ones who have stonewalled. The cost of a case going to the FOS is irrelevant to whether they will defend the case.

Your only real route is the courts but you MUST understand FULLY what you are arguing or you will fail. Appreciate that is not what you want to hear but that appears to be how they do things nowadays!!

[johndoh]

Re: Credit card charge refund refused by FOS adjudicator - next step?

A lot of banks have provided confidential information to the FOS which basically gives an exact cost of processing charges which, in many cases, is over and above the £12 threshold of intervention. BoS are part of LloydsTSB and they are the ones who have stonewalled. The cost of a case going to the FOS is irrelevant to whether they will defend the case.

Your only real route is the courts but you MUST understand FULLY what you are arguing or you will fail. Appreciate that is not what you want to hear but that appears to be how they do things nowadays!!

Thanks for your reply. Is there anybody who does fully understand this who can help, or who can direct me to resources that will?

[leclerc]

Re: Credit card charge refund refused by FOS adjudicator - next step?

Thanks for your reply. Is there anybody who does fully understand this who can help, or who can direct me to resources that will?

Have you not read OFT842?
Where did you get your initial letter for repayment cos it would contain case law which you should read?

OFT842 is here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...cts/oft842.pdf

[Turboman]

Re: Credit card charge refund refused by FOS adjudicator - next step?

Hi Johndoh

as Leclerc says Halifax are stonewallers

Barclaycard on the other hand refund the £12 on receipt of an initial letter

Turbs

[Bill-K]

Re: Credit card charge refund refused by FOS adjudicator - next step?

Hi Johndoh. I guess you could wait for an ombudsman's opinion, but that could take a while and - as you say - it may well be the same as the adjudicator's. This would cost nothing, though, whereas a small claim will entail a lodging fee, unless you can claim exemption from this. There is also a risk of being saddled with 'Wasted Costs' - even in the Small Claims Court.

Why the need for confidentiality ? It does seem strange that, if the bank can convince the FOS that its £12 penalties are fair, by submitting a credible cost breakdown, it will still try and avoid a court disclosure. Penalties at £12 have certainly become a tricky thing to claim now - but NOT impossible.

One angle which I believe might help is if you were paying Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) on the card account. If so, you may be able to reclaim this, and then show that some - or all - of the penalties were a result of this.

[Bill-K]

Re: Credit card charge refund refused by FOS adjudicator - next step?

I'm not sure if it still stands, but the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations (UTCCR) might be useable here, as it's a credit card. In particular, sections 5 to 8.

The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

Section 8:

Effect of unfair term

8.—(1) An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer.


(2) The contract shall continue to bind the parties if it is capable of continuing in existence without the unfair term.

This has been used previously, where penalty charges have been made at a higher rate than £12, and only the difference has been refunded. What the UTCCR is saying is that the contract term which allowed an excessive penalty to be charged - and was thus an unfair term - must be excluded ENTIRELY from the contract, and NOT just modified. Therefore the ENTIRE charge must be refunded, as there is then no term allowing such charge to be made.

I would welcome further comment on this, as I don't know if this route has since been abandoned. Presumably, if the charges made originally were £12 charges, then they are not seen as unfair if the bank can show that £12 is reasonable.

[johndoh]

Re: Credit card charge refund refused by FOS adjudicator - next step?

Have you not read OFT842?
Where did you get your initial letter for repayment cos it would contain case law which you should read?

OFT842 is here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...cts/oft842.pdf

Thanks everybody for your replies. I think the best course of action is for me to read this first, once I've got the time and it's done I'll be back... :beagle:

[supermac9]

Re: Credit card charge refund refused by FOS adjudicator - next step?

I'm in exactly the same boat with you - FOS have received information from HBoS about 'actual' costs being more than £12. I've asked them to get an Ombudsman to look at this, as there is nothing to lose by doing this - I have also reminded them of guidance from the OFT (842, April 2006) which refers to 'net limited additional admin costs', although they will be fully aware of this.
My only hope is that the secret information provided by HBoS to the FOS includes costs that shouldn't be applied (expensive buildings and the like), but I expect they will just fall on the side of the bank and dismiss my complaint.

[Ktlou10]

Re: Credit card charge refund refused by FOS adjudicator - next step?

Same as me I have been given a big fat No to any fees from aqua being refunded so FOS are looking into it and have told me 8 weeks to get a response but judging by the posts above I assume it will be a No! I have been succesful in reclaiming from barclaycard, vanquis, priority visa rewards so I feel very lucky to have got them back tbh. ANy other experiences shared would be greatly appreciated though.

[leclerc]

Re: Credit card charge refund refused by FOS adjudicator - next step?

Ktlou10, what were the fees you were charged? How far back do they go? Did you challenge the fees at the time and what were you said?

I currently have a claim going via the ombudsman for my brother....long since resolved in my mind(has been there over 6 months albeit, I know they are not going to budge and I accept that but hey ho, worth taking the process as far as you can to see how it all works).

If you challenged them at the time and were told that that was the charge for administration, it is my firm belief that you can argue for the difference in amounts charged since a number of firms have provided the FOS with information that has given a "real cost" and so the FOS are accepting £12 arguments and ruling in favour of banks. My belief is that fees over 6 years should be argued, if you challenged them at the time on the basis that the bank mislead you that their costs was £20+ so that you at least get the difference plus interest.