help with charging order Shoosmiths/NatWest

[thefishdaves]

hi all, I'm new to this forum so hoping I'm posting in the correct place.

I've been recommened this forum as I'm looking for some help regarding a charging order on my house for a NatWest credit Card.

I've had a letter from the Land Registery saying I have to respond by Sept 12th and a letter from Shoosmiths with a N379 form and a court date next month (I was advised not to post specific dates?).

I sent NatWest a CCA request 3 years ago. They responded in time. They sent me my signed application form, a copy of one of my statements, a leaflet of the T&C from 2008 (my application was 2001!), a computer print out of some general terms and conditions but more importantly a computer print out of the terms of a CCA (dated 2004), no signature and my CURRENT address prinited on the top in a different font, different address to the one one I was living at when I applied for the card in 2001. I've had advice that this was totally wrong and I could persue it further for fraud by NatWest but I felt way out of my depth and like a lot of people in debt, I chose to ignore it hoping it would go away :-(

Now I've got a court date for the amount to be charged to the house. I've dared not tell my husband yet as he'll go mad so I'm in a bit of a state at the moment with worry.

Is there any way possible of fighting this or have I left it too late?

Hoping for some guidence from someone

[Amethyst]

Re: help with charging order Shoosmiths/NatWest

To get to the stage where you have a hearing for a final charging order you must have had a court claim and been awarded a CCJ against you. Could you put up details of the original debt, county court claim, your admission/defence entered etc.

We need to know what was ordered - payment by installments if you entered an IE sheet, or a forthwith payment order. That makes a difference to how you tackle the Charging Order application.

And try not to worry, if you do get a charging order you should be able to get an installment order to run alongside it and they can't touch your house unless you miss a number of payments - but they have to go back through court, and if your circumstances change you can apply for a redetermination of the installment order so it always stays affordable.

Let us know a bit more of the history

Ame
xx

[thefishdaves]

Re: help with charging order Shoosmiths/NatWest

To get to the stage where you have a hearing for a final charging order you must have had a court claim and been awarded a CCJ against you. Could you put up details of the original debt, county court claim, your admission/defence entered etc.

We need to know what was ordered - payment by installments if you entered an IE sheet, or a forthwith payment order. That makes a difference to how you tackle the Charging Order application.

.

Thank you very much for the response and I have to say I'm happy to of been recommened this forum after a bad experience on another one.

The CCJ was awarded in May for just under £2k. Very foolishly I did not enter a defence (just ignored it, burying my head and hoping it would go away) which I should of done as for one I wouldn't of got myself in such a state and two, I would of had a very good chance of beating them (see first post). It's from bad advice from a different forum....they say don't do this and that but then never follow up with what happens next.

The CCJ form has the total and 'forthwith' at the end of it which I assumed they wanted the payment in full which I just don't have. We have £80 to get us til the end of the next week (2 adults and a child). Now the CO papers have appeared on my doorstep and I'm panicing as I'm pretty sure I've just left it too late now. I just keep thinking I'm not the first and not the last person to be so stupid but that doesn't help!!

I have Land Registery papers that need to be returned by 12 Sept with mine and my husbands consent and a letter from Shoosmiths with a N379 form, a court date (hundreds of miles away from where we live) of Sept 23, total amount owed and that interest will continue to be added and it just states to 'kindly acknowledge receipt'.

[Amethyst]

Re: help with charging order Shoosmiths/NatWest

Okay - no problems.

It is a shame you didn't enter a defence, or even an admission and offer to pay, but all is not lost so don't panic. As you do have a forthwith order it is likely they will be awarded the charging order now. It sounds as though Shoosmiths have just sent copies of the documents they have sent to the court and landregistry for your information so I don't think you need do anything on that score. Is there any notification from the court on the court date? You can ask the court to transfer the hearing to your local court.

Have you read up much on charging orders? Basically it will sit on your house whilst you make payments by installment as set by the court and they can't do anything with it unless you miss a number of payments and they apply back to the court for possession (rarely awarded particularly for £2k) - they basically want some security - so if in future you sold your house they would get their debt paid up. So I wouldn't worry too much about it.

You can enter a witness statement asking the court to order installment payments (based on the amount you can afford as shown by your full income and expenditure sheet) - in return they will probably award the final charging order to the claimants. Don't worry about only being able to afford minimal amounts - we do see debts of £20k paid at £10 a month with a charging order security.

As the CCJ was back in May and you knew of it at the time I doubt you would be able to get a variation to an installment order without a charging order.

So realistically you are looking to

1) contact the court and ask to transfer to your local court
2) working on your IE sheet and how much you can offer
3) working on a witness statement arguing the toss over the charging order but expecting it to be awarded and asking for freeze of interest etc, offering affordable installments to be reviewed periodically through the court (ie if circ improve/worsen)

If you have a link to your thread elsewhere it might also help see if there was actually anything possible on this debt and whether you can, or want to, go back at this stage to argue any CCA points on the vaguely faulty documentation.

Thank you very much for the response and I have to say I'm happy to of been recommened this forum after a bad experience on another one.

The CCJ was awarded in May for just under £2k. Very foolishly I did not enter a defence (just ignored it, burying my head and hoping it would go away) which I should of done as for one I wouldn't of got myself in such a state and two, I would of had a very good chance of beating them (see first post). It's from bad advice from a different forum....they say don't do this and that but then never follow up with what happens next.

The CCJ form has the total and 'forthwith' at the end of it which I assumed they wanted the payment in full which I just don't have. We have £80 to get us til the end of the next week (2 adults and a child). Now the CO papers have appeared on my doorstep and I'm panicing as I'm pretty sure I've just left it too late now. I just keep thinking I'm not the first and not the last person to be so stupid but that doesn't help!!

I have Land Registery papers that need to be returned by 12 Sept with mine and my husbands consent and a letter from Shoosmiths with a N379 form, a court date (hundreds of miles away from where we live) of Sept 23, total amount owed and that interest will continue to be added and it just states to 'kindly acknowledge receipt'.

[thefishdaves]

Re: help with charging order Shoosmiths/NatWest

Thank you. Before I reply in full can I add that I had a letter from the mortgage company today saying that Shoosmiths have written to them asking for info on our mortgage account?? Why have they done that? They want our consent before releasing any info and state that they will tell us the contents of the Shoosmiths letter if we request it. We are fully up to date with our mortgage and have never missed a payment or been late paying.
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Also, the mortgage is joint ownership with my husband but the debt is in my name only. So would the IE form be just me as it's my debt and nothing to do with my husband?

[Brian]

Re: help with charging order Shoosmiths/NatWest

I think you need to give some consideration to telling your other half on all this, as this will come out in the wash in the end....

It will be a good move as two of you are stronger than one!

i cant believe these slags are going for a CO for a 2 grand debt what is the world coming to!!!

[CleverClogs]

Re: help with charging order Shoosmiths/NatWest

As the judgement was for only £2,000, could you not borrow that much from the mortgage lender to settle the CCJ in full and thus avoid the possible problems with the charging order?

[Judge mental]

Re: help with charging order Shoosmiths/NatWest

Hi;

Just a bit of re-assurance, dont worry about a charging order . . . whilst Natwest will apply for one and a Judge grant it, because the mortgage is in joint names and the debt in one, it wont actually be a charging order, it will be a charging restriction.

All this means is that the house cannot be sold without Natwest being notified of the pending sale, the have no claims to any of the proceeds of any sale, they also cannot enforce a sale.

In the event of you selling the house at any time in the future a good solicitor would send Natwest notification of the pending sale the day before completion, leaving Natwest no time to return to the court to ask for their money out of the sale money.

The restriction actomatically terminates at the time of Sale.

A charging restriction is worthless and is the end of the road as far as the legal action is concerned, but the debt is exists so you still need to follow Amethyst advice to make an arrangement to repay the debt at an amount you can realistically afford ....

Hope you sleep a bit better tonight.

Stuart

P.S Can you post up the actual wording of the entry to be placed at the Land registry just to make sure only a restriction is being applied.

[thefishdaves]

Re: help with charging order Shoosmiths/NatWest

Thank you all for your replies, I'm a lot more calmer thnan last week! The court date is in 3 weeks in Bradford.
Shoosmiths have a sent a copy of what they are going to put on the Land Registry and it does state a RESTRICTION. A letter from the Land Registry itself too also says:

As a result of the application the following entry is being made:
RESTRICTION: No deposition of the registered estate.........


How do I go about making payments now? Do I have to wait for the restriction to be made now in 3 weeks and they will send me a form or something? Sorry for sounding so stupid, I really have no idea where to go from here. All I can gather is that the restriction will be made regardless and I will have to make a payment plan but don't know how I set one up :-/ and also as it's my debt will it go off my money or my husbands wages too even though the debt isn't his but the house is co-owned?