Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

[100mel]

I had a very old Barclaycard account (started 1975) - some two years ago when I was very ill and had a serious family bereavement they started to give me hassle when I fell behind with payments. I then wrote to them requesting copies of the agreement and nothing ever appeared beyond a printout of terms and conditions - nothing with my signature on it in any way. They have not sent any statements for 2 years

Now suddenly they have posted this account in arrears on my credit file without any notification to me whatsoever - only found out when I went to open a bank account

what should I do now? - hope someone can help as this has come right out of the blue

[chrissiej]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

Hi Mel, I'm very new to this myself too, but I believe - and someone will hopefully correct me if I am wrong :tinysmile_hmm_t2: that if you have asked for a CCA S78 compliant copy of your agreement (which includes the T&C at the time you took out the card, the T&C now and a signed statement of your account at the date of their response) and they have not provided it, you can write back to them and say your account is in dispute as they have not complied.

Although they can still trash your credit rating by recording the fact that you have not made your minimum payments, I understand they can't default you or go on to terminate the agreement, thereby paving the way to take you to Court to enforce the debt.

Furthermore, if they want to enforce the debt in Court they have to produce the original signed agreement, not just the S78 compliant version.

Moderators and experts - If I have misunderstood what I have read on this forum would someone please correct me!!!

:beagle:

[100mel]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

I went right the way through SAR requests and requests for copies of agreement etc some two years ago - they had Mercers on my case morning, noon and night - then when I threatened them over harassment it all suddenly stopped and I haven't heard a word from them since. The only way I knew about it was checking my credit file - what intrigues me is that over all the years the account has never been on my credit file - now suddenly it is - arrears showing but no default so I assume this is a deliberate ploy to trash my credit file

The problem is that it is causing the desired effect and my question is what to do now

[Garlok]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

Hi 100mel,

Our cards are 1981/82 era and there are certain problems with these whiich never seem to get resolved despite asking several times.

Your problem seems to be further compounded by your "start" date. Firstly as far as I can tell the CCA1974 was not enacted in full until September 1977 and the regulations and Statutory Instruments did not come in until 1983. Now, proper legal advice to us was that these issues made life a bit more difficult but were not insurmountable. Apparently the creditor can "just refer back" hence in these circumstances never take action against them but wait to defend anything they bring against you and make them prove their case.

I have been referred on here to SI 1983 no.s 1553 and 1557 which are the standard 1983 regs and Copies of Docs regs. However neither seem to solve the problem entirely in my mind. Secondly one of the guys also pointed me in the direction of the Moneylenders Act which came before the CCA but have not had the time to research this yet.

Also there was no reference AT ALL to credit cards on our CRAs until recently, about a year after the whole thing became a legal issue ,then of course the big Ds arrived which they will end up paying for as it was the legals who placed the accounts in dispute over several matters not us. One other point that I have not resolved is that on various forums it has been said that credit cards issued before 1996 cannot be entered onto a credit reference file. I have found no basis for that statement.

I am just leaving it all in the hands of our solicitors for the present.


regards
Garlok

[100mel]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

Thanks Garlok - this is most interesting - there has to be something about the dates because until two weeks ago this barclaycard had never ever been entered on any credit file (I always thought that was because it predated credit files and the subsequent obsession of financial institutions with them - therefore I was surprised that suddenly out of the blue Barclaycard have the right to enter it on my credit file without any notice to me of any description

I realise that I need a solicitor here as this is not straightforward but finding one who has detailed knowledge of the CCA and particularly old agreements is my next issue as this will be an ongoing stalemate and I am way out of my depth here - I've done SAR and penalty charges etc plus numerous requests for any agreement which has never been forthcoming

I'll have a look at your references - thanks

[Ihaterbs]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

they only need send a copy of the latest terms and conditions on older agreements

[Garlok]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

On what specific authority I haterbs?

regards
Garlok

[100mel]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

So how could they collect on a debt without any form of agreement with anyone's signature on it?

Is there legal reference to the fact that a one page generic terms and conditions applies to an old agreement and makes it enforceable?

[Garlok]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

Like I said in my request to Ihaterbs, what is the specific authority for his statement please?

I cannot find any specifics,and in any case our sols made it clear that it becomes just a bit more problematical, not insurmountable.

There are two very good solicitors practices that I know of, one is MSB in Liverpool and the other is Watsons of Llandudno. (pt2537 works for them). Each is a specialist or has specialist knowledge in these areas.

There are others and I will explain if you need how we came to the decision to go to with MSB and how we found the short list I drew up at the time (some 18months ago now).

regards
Garlok

[100mel]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

Thanks Garlok - I had just come across MSB in my searches and will check out other firm

It also occurs to me that in later agreements we give consent to our details being shared with credit reference agencies - in earlier agreements we did not but I guess Barclaycard will contend that sending out terms and conditions implies implicit agreement to those terms

[Ihaterbs]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

On what specific authority I haterbs?

regards
Garlok

The 1983 regs allow for this.

[100mel]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

The 1983 regs allow for this.

Can you be a little more specific as to whereabouts in 1983 regulations it says as much

I cannot see how a one page generic set of terms and conditions can be considered enforceable in law as a replacement for an earlier document which is no longer available - if it is to be considered as a reconstituted agreement it must surely reconstitute the terms of the original agreement? My card predates 1983

[calamity jane]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

Hi 100mel,

One other point that I have not resolved is that on various forums it has been said that credit cards issued before 1996 cannot be entered onto a credit reference file. I have found no basis for that statement.

I am just leaving it all in the hands of our solicitors for the present.


regards
Garlok

Probably because from 2000 onwards new legislation required lenders and providers to include for customer approval for data sharing.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/The...314040219.html


Barclays view in 2008 was that they had received "consent by action" through their evolving terms and conditions.


http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/Barcl...g-Response.pdf



CJ

[Ihaterbs]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

Can you be a little more specific as to whereabouts in 1983 regulations it says as muchI cannot see how a one page generic set of terms and conditions can be considered enforceable in law as a replacement for an earlier document which is no longer available - if it is to be considered as a reconstituted agreement it must surely reconstitute the terms of the original agreement? My card predates 1983

Here you are

Copies of old agreements and security instruments where the agreement or security instrument has been lost etc.
9. Any copy of an executed agreement made before 19th May 1985 or of a security instrument relating to security provided before that date which is given to the debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act on or after that date may comprise an easily legible statement of the current terms of the agreement or security as the case may be insofar as they are known to the creditor or owner where, due to an accident or some other cause beyond his control, the creditor or owner does not have in his possession the executed agreement or security instrument or any copy thereof.

[Ihaterbs]

Re: Old Barclaycard - urgent help required

IMPORTANT Please note that the irredemiably unenforceability provisions of s.127 CCA 1074 do not apply to agreements which commenced before 19th May 1985