Cumin v Cap One - CCA / Kerobo

[Amethyst]

Re: Cumin v Cap One - CCA / Kerobo

did you get your money back off them?

[chelski123]

Re: Cumin v Cap One - CCA / Kerobo

Hi Amethyst

I have exactly the same agreement as the one you pasted a copy of [application - style agreement plus the stuff on the link below]. Do you know if one of these agreements has actually gone to court on an enforcement by Capital One?

http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t336/Poolio22/CapOne /CapOneAgreementBack.jpg

And do you think it's enforcable? I'd be interested in your opinion.

Ta

DA

[Amethyst]

Re: Cumin v Cap One - CCA / Kerobo

In my opinion it is.

Pending checking the interest rates quoted are those charged for the first six months of the agreement (for purchases).

I don't know of any Capital One cases that have been through court and been deemed unenforceable.

Prescribed terms for running account credit agreements

states 'Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974'
your details
Creditors details
interest rate
apr (which doubles as charge for credit)
credit limit (a statement that the credit limit will be determined by the creditor from time to time under the agreement and that notice of it will be given by him to the debtor)
repayments ( the bit about 2% or £5 per month etc )



They are all on the front or back page of the 'application', the back page is referred to from the front (overleaf) and the supplementary terms (from which the minimum terms stated on the reverse come from) referred to (and these should have been provided at the same time but need not be within the same ''four corners'').



Just to back that up..

33. In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under section 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127 (3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1

and to clarify what is mean by ' four corners'

(1) It is not sufficient for the piece of paper signed by the debtor merely to cross-refer to the Prescribed Terms without a copy of those terms being supplied to the debtor at the point of signature;

(2) A document need not be a single piece of paper;

(3) Whether several pieces of paper constitute one document is a question of substance not form. In particular a physical connection between several pieces of paper is not necessary in order for them to constitute one document;

(4) Additionally, a physical connection (or one or more physical connections) between several pieces of paper does not necessarily constitute them as one document;

(5) Accordingly, where the debtor's signature and the Prescribed Terms appear on separate pieces of paper, the questions of whether those pieces of paper together constitute one document is a question of substance and not form.

[Zazen.Warrior]

Re: Cumin v Cap One - CCA / Kerobo

Kerobo Ltd

On 24th September 2010 the Ministry of Justice ("MoJ") cancelled Kerobo Ltd's authorisation to provide regulated claims management services. The MoJ has issued a statement to customers of Kerobo Ltd concerning the cancellation.

https://www.claimsregulation.gov.uk/...L%20240910.pdf

Customers of any businesses whose authorisations have been suspended or cancelled should read our factsheet: Claims Management Regulator Factsheet – suspended or cancelled business

https://www.claimsregulation.gov.uk/...lled)%20v2.pdf

[cunim]

Re: Cumin v Cap One - CCA / Kerobo

I received this from them giving 7 days notice to pay up or default when we have only received a letter saying that they do not agree to our state of the case (above refers). A tadge heavy handed when we are disputing the case. What do you think?

[Amethyst]

Re: Cumin v Cap One - CCA / Kerobo

Hiya, The letter is basically reminding you of the default notice and that the period to remedy the default situation finishes on 17th September. So thats now passed and the account will now be terminated and reported to the credit reference agencies. And be passed to the DCA. Thats whats happened and why Cougar FS are now contacting you.

Other than what Kerabo told you why did you stop making payments on the account ? (financial hardship etc?)

Remember Kerabo are out of business for a reason, and its not because they were good at what they did and got things right. So they have dumped you in the poop and you have to make a decision whether you continue along the path they set you on or you try and sort it out with a repayment arrangement etc.

You can write to Cougar and tell them you consider the account in dispute, if you do.

Read this ~~~ Consumer Credit Agreements - A Guide ~~~~ inc. Letters - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

[chelski123]

Re: Cumin v Cap One - CCA / Kerobo

Thanks, Amethyst.

Yes, I suspect that your analysis is correct.

If the rates that were subsequently applied to the account aren't the same as stated in the CCA, do you believe that would be enough to question the enforcability of the agreement?

G

[Amethyst]

Re: Cumin v Cap One - CCA / Kerobo

I don't, no. If the agreement was a reconstructed one then you'd maybe have an argument that they hadnt reconstructed it properly. I'm not 100% on the interest rate differences between contract and first statement though so I am mid ask of someone who looks more at these bits and will let you know as soon as.

Whats the actual situation with the debt now ? - ignoring the CCA /Kerobo issues for now.