MBNA account 1

[nelliewops]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some advice on how to tackle OH's two MBNA accounts of which this thread will deal with the first.

This account was opened in 2004 and has an outstanding balance of around £4000. The card was last used over 4 years ago and due to falling into financial difficulties the last time a payment was made was mid 2008.

I have been dealing with this on behalf of OH so last year I sent off both a SAR and a CCA request to MBNA.

I now know the SAR result was not complete as they only provided a list of charges and transactions and I've recently sent a new comprehensive SAR to them (including a request for the comms log) and am awaiting their response.

From the list of charges and transactions provided I discovered that the account was 'charged off' at the end of 2008. Shortly after this there is also an entry 'zero curbl on sold acct'.

Only recently I found a Default Notice dating from 3 days after the 'charged-off' date. OH had squirrelled this away and it only came to light a year after it had been received.

We have no Notice of Assignment, although that doesn't mean OH never received one!

In response to the CCA request sent to MBNA OH received a letter from a DCA who said they were awaiting it's retrieval from MBNA. From the 'charged off' comment I took this to imply that MBNA had sold the account to this DCA.

Over a year later the CCA finally arrived and the DCA started making demands for repayment of the full outstanding balance.

In the meantime I have requested a refund of mis-sold PPI (which MBNA upheld almost immediately and refunded by way of a cheque to OH, albeit with a very small amount of interest) and charges.

The charges complaint they rejected absolutely and this is now with the FOS. Recently the FOS informed us that MBNA had offered to refund the charges, but the interest which MBNA refer to as 'a provision for associated contract interest and statutory interest to date' is somewhat short of my calculation. This payment has not yet been received as I told the FOS it would be accepted in part settlement only.

Now to the real point of my posting -

I would like to rid ourselves of MBNA/the DCA by way of negotiating a Full and Final settlement. I am happy to utilise the charges refund for this purpose if possible.

However, I feel there may be issues with the Default Notice (remedy date wise) and do not want to end up offering more than I should.

I have written several times to the DCA (new owner?) informing them that there is an ongoing dispute over the charges applied to the account, in order to stave off any further collection activities until I get that aspect resolved - but so far they are persisting with their letters demanding the balance in full.

Can anyone please advise on my best way to proceed please?

I can post up the relevant docs with identifying info removed if that is necessary.

Many thanks,

Nellie x

[wycombe]

Re: MBNA account 1

You will need to know who owns the debt. If MBNA sold it on then IMHO you have a good chance of reach a full and final settlement for a reasonable figure. The average 'sell on' by MBNA seems to be in the region of 10p or so in the £.

However MBNA rarely sell on a debt if you have indicated you own a property or hold a mortgage as their modus operandi is to go for a Charging Order in order to turn an unsecured debt into one secured - that is after the Summons, defence submitted bits.

[nelliewops]

Re: MBNA account 1

Thanks for responding Wycombe, it's most appreciated

Obviously when and if they respond to the SAR I will have a better idea of whether the account has indeed been sold, but as the transaction lists previously received show it has having been 'charged off' followed by the comment 'zero curbl on sold acct', I would have presumed this to be the case...........

As for owning a property - yes we do.

Also OH has a second MBNA account (which I'll be starting a thread for soon!) and I have even more reason to believe that this one has been sold as we have a Notice of Assignment and a letter from the DCA which states they have 'purchased the account and all rights, interest and claims in respect of all amounts outstanding.'

Strange but true

[wycombe]

Re: MBNA account 1

Keep your fingers crossed that they have sold on. This is most unusual behaviour for MBNA to sell on an account if the defaulter has a property or a stake in one.

Sit tight until you are fully aware of everything MBNA hold on you and the status of the accounts. If sold on it will be interesting to see who holds the debt now. Most DCA's work according to a set formula so once you know who it is you can work out their probable cause of action.

[nelliewops]

Re: MBNA account 1

Thanks wycombe - the SAR only went off about a fortnight ago, so very early days yet - can't wait to find out the truth though so hopefully all the evidence will be there...........

It does appear that the DCA owns the account - or else is tenaciously holding on to it - as there has been no sign of any other company's involvement since the first correspondence was received from this particular DCA about 18 months ago.

Also I have had another search in our folders and found a letter from MBNA dated just prior to the DN date and a couple of weeks before the mysterious 'charge off' date which says that OH's account is 'scheduled to be written off as a bad debt this month'. Also at that point MBNA offered a 60% reduction on both accounts.

On top of that there is the fact that when MBNA have refunded the PPI on this account (and both PPI and charges on OH's other MBNA account) directly to him rather than to the account - which l always thought happened if the OC still owned the debt...........

So all the evidence does seem to point to the account having been sold

Nellie x

[WendyB]

Re: MBNA account 1

Sorry Nellie, I can't really see what your objective is here with trying to pick holes out of the DN. . Obviously you want this debt gone, for as little as possible, but given that you stopped paying in April 2008, and the DN wasn;t dated till end of 2008, and you admit you hadn't been paying it anyway, I think it's a bit cheeky of you to try and find fault with the DN now. What are the reasons given for them not paying out on the charges complaint, and how much are the charges in relation to the total debt?

If you can get the charges refunded, and as much associated interest as possible, then this will be taken off the debt, if you can then negotiate a decent F and F then thats all good. But at the end of the day its probably all about compromise and it might be worth giving a bit on the interest in order to get a decent F and F sorted sooner rather than later, if you see what I mean. As for offering them "too much" they are not obliged to accept an F ad F at all, and in my book anything less than the amount owing (less charges etc) is a result. They could insist on you paying the whole lot and you could be paying it forever.......

[nelliewops]

Re: MBNA account 1

Sorry Nellie, I can't really see what your objective is here with trying to pick holes out of the DN. . Obviously you want this debt gone, for as little as possible, but given that you stopped paying in April 2008, and the DN wasn;t dated till end of 2008, and you admit you hadn't been paying it anyway, I think it's a bit cheeky of you to try and find fault with the DN now. What are the reasons given for them not paying out on the charges complaint, and how much are the charges in relation to the total debt?

If you can get the charges refunded, and as much associated interest as possible, then this will be taken off the debt, if you can then negotiate a decent F and F then thats all good. But at the end of the day its probably all about compromise and it might be worth giving a bit on the interest in order to get a decent F and F sorted sooner rather than later, if you see what I mean. As for offering them "too much" they are not obliged to accept an F ad F at all, and in my book anything less than the amount owing (less charges etc) is a result. They could insist on you paying the whole lot and you could be paying it forever.......

Hi Wendy,

Thanks for your comments. I'm not trying to pick holes in the DN here - all I was saying is that it appears to be a few days short and that if so there are implications regarding unlawful rescission.

My main reason for referring to the DN is that I'm trying to establish whether MBNA sold the account before the date to remedy the breach had passed - ie, unlawful rescission of contract, which will hopefully become apparent when the SAR arrives.

If that was the case OH would I believe, only be liable for the arrears as quoted on the DN - around £450.00.

I don't think I said the last payment was made in April 2008 - it was actually made at the end of July 2008 and the DN dates from 2 months later.

What I meant by saying I didn't want to offer too much in F&F is that if the account was unlawfully rescinded, OH would only be liable for the arrears - circa £450 so I don't want to end up paying them say for example £2000...........

Regarding the charges complaint - most of the charges are the old £25.00 type and only a few are the newer £12.00.

On OH's other MBNA account when I put in a charges complaint, whilst they initially rejected repaying the newer £12.00 charges, they did offer the difference between the old £25.00 ones and the newer rate of £12.00, ie, they offered a refund of £13.00 for every older type charge. I rejected this offer and they immediately wrote back with an offer to refund all charges (£25.00 and £12.00) in full with contractual interest on top. Because this account had been sold by MBNA to a DCA, the refund cheque was paid directly to OH and not into the account.

With the account referred to in this thread (which as I said has predominantly the older £25.00 charges), they rejected the complaint completely and didn't offer any charges to be refunded.

I then passed the complaint to the FOS, whereby MBNA backtracked and told the FOS they would refund all charges plus 'a provision for associated contract interest and statutory interest to date.'

This offer (of around one third of the outstanding balance) is somewhat less than that calculated with Bill-K's kind assistance, so I have informed the FOS we will accept it in part settlement only.

However, if they come back with an increased offer or even if they don't I cannot see why they should have this as well as a further amount in F&F from us.

I read on MSE where as a rough guide if an account has been purchased by a DCA, they have been known to accept as little as 25% in F&F - this would equate to just under £1000.

I would happily compromise and pay them this much, but not on top of the charges refund!

I don't want you to think we are avoiding paying our debts Wendy - I know we spent this money, but before OH's suicide attempt and our subsequent financial problems we usually repaid more than the minimum monthly amount - sometimes £1000 at a time - and even now we are well within the card limit, despite their charges and interest.

However, we have been ripped off once too often by the banks and after what they have put us through, I'm not going to be bullied by them again.

Nellie x

[Angry Cat]

Re: MBNA account 1

If you want to make a F&F, offer no more than 10p in the £

Remember, you can go up but you cannot come down!

[nelliewops]

Re: MBNA account 1

Hi AC,

Thanks for dropping by!

That I think, will definitely be my starting point - will wait for the SAR to come through first though :tinysmile_grin_t:

Nellie x

[Angry Cat]

Re: MBNA account 1

Hi AC,

Thanks for dropping by!

That I think, will definitely be my starting point - will wait for the SAR to come through first though :tinysmile_grin_t:

Nellie x

Yes, wait for the SAR information, in order to ascertain the charges plus interest levied on same.

Also, it will be interesting to see the DN.

[nelliewops]

Re: MBNA account 1

Hi folks!

Have been away for a few days and had no internet access. Back yesterday and this morning the MBNA SAR dropped through the letterbox.............

It confirms via the comms log that both this and OH's second card account were definitely sold (despite us being property owners) and that both accounts were sold several days before the date given to remedy the breach on the DN.

Both new owners of these accounts have been awfully quiet for some time - on this account nothing has been heard for 3 months and the second account nothing for 12 months :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

Now that I know for certain that both accounts were sold and that in both cases unlawful rescission took place I would like to take steps to settle them both asap.

If anyone can offer any advice on whether I should just go in with a low offer as suggested by AC etc etc I would be most grateful!

Obviously I am aware of the need to get written confirmation that my offer would be accepted as settlement in full, the balance not sold on and that all adverse data should be removed from the CRAs etc............

Many thanks,

Nellie x

[nelliewops]

Re: MBNA account 1

Hi folks!

Just wondering whether anyone has any advice on my next steps with these accounts now I have established that both were unlawfully rescinded - as I really don't want to just leave them hanging in the balance!

As we are in a position now where we could probably afford a low F&F offer that would be my preferred choice. I don't really want to be bothering with token monthly payments if I could clear them in one hit.

The thought of continuing to do nothing all the while there is a risk that they might file a court claim is too risky as far as I'm concerned - although it does puzzle me why on one account there has been no word for about a year :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

Many thanks,

Nellie x

[nelliewops]

Re: MBNA account 1

Hi folks!

Just wondering whether anyone has any advice on my next steps with these accounts now I have established that both were unlawfully rescinded - as I really don't want to just leave them hanging in the balance!

As we are in a position now where we could probably afford a low F&F offer that would be my preferred choice. I don't really want to be bothering with token monthly payments if I could clear them in one hit.

The thought of continuing to do nothing all the while there is a risk that they might file a court claim is too risky as far as I'm concerned - although it does puzzle me why on one account there has been no word for about a year :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

Many thanks,

Nellie x

Just a gentle 'BUMP' for some advice on this please!

[Amethyst]

Re: MBNA account 1

Not the foggiest honey, sorry. All this new DN/Termination techhy breach stuff does my head in a bit. But if you can do a F&F and point out your thoughts on the unlawful recission as a sweetener then I should do that.

[nelliewops]

Re: MBNA account 1

Thanks Ame - I appreciate your suggestion and support

I'll definitely be giving it a try sometime soon and will let you know how I get on!