Mbna / Restons

[Amy]

Re: Mbna / Restons

There is nothing to be done until it is time for the defence to be submitted, which hopefully the OP is either working on or has one already to hand.

[summersun6]

Re: Mbna / Restons

I have received a letter from Restons ( re: CPR 31.14 ) enclosing a "copy of my executed credit agreement, along with the original terms and conditions which applied to the above account".

Also, from MBNA they have responded to S78. request with "a copy of your executed agreement, your up to date terms and conditions, a copy of your most recent statement (which shows the state of your account) which has been signed"

What is my next step ?

[MIKE770]

Re: Mbna / Restons

I have received a letter from Restons ( re: CPR 31.14 ) enclosing a "copy of my executed credit agreement, along with the original terms and conditions which applied to the above account".

Also, from MBNA they have responded to S78. request with "a copy of your executed agreement, your up to date terms and conditions, a copy of your most recent statement (which shows the state of your account) which has been signed"

What is my next step ?

For a start upload minus your person details the CCA for those more knowledgable who can let you know if it is enforceable, as most CCAs are not???

[summersun6]

Re: Mbna / Restons

Mike,
I have just noticed that the CPR request that I sent to Restons on the 30th June (and tracked arrival as 1st July) was not returned strictly within the seven day limit. They dated and postmarked it 8th July and I did not receive it until 9th July. Are they in default of their obligations ?
summersun

[summersun6]

Re: Mbna / Restons

details of CCA reply from MBNA

Adobe Acrobat.com
Adobe Acrobat.com
Adobe Acrobat.com
Adobe Acrobat.com
Adobe Acrobat.com
Adobe Acrobat.com


comments urgently required

[MIKE770]

Re: Mbna / Restons

details of CCA reply from MBNA

Adobe Acrobat.com
Adobe Acrobat.com
Adobe Acrobat.com
Adobe Acrobat.com
Adobe Acrobat.com
Adobe Acrobat.com


comments urgently required

J.B. at heading of copy CCA>>>?????

[summersun6]

Re: Mbna / Restons

don't know, but have seen it on another example of a so called cca
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
see link below for application with jb at top

MBNA-Link: 3 different copies of alleged agreements! - The Consumer Forums

[Curlyben]

Re: Mbna / Restons

Well the prescribed terms are present, ie limit, repayments and APR.
Has it been signed by you as it's not clear from the scan ?

If so time to get a settlement in place, possibly by way of a Tomlin Order.

[summersun6]

Re: Mbna / Restons

Yes, is was signed by me. Is it not the case that the full terms and conditions do not form part of the original agreement and that the agreement is in fact only an application form ? As it says at the end " if your application for this credit card is approved....."
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Is an agreement not supposed to be signed by both parties ?
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
It is submitted the credit agreement supplied falls foul of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) in so far that the prescribed terms are not contained within the agreement but in a separate document headed Terms Conditions. There is no apparent link between the Terms & Conditions and the credit agreement. The prescribed terms must be with the agreement for it to be compliant with section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
The data protection section refers to sections 13 and 14 which are clearly not part of the so called agreement, but are in seperate T&c's
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
I am not an expert on interest rates, but are those rates refered to annual percentage rates, which in effect are the interest rate plus other charges ?
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
It also clearly says on the reverse of the application ..."follow these vital steps on the application form overleaf"

[Curlyben]

Re: Mbna / Restons

OK I'll go slow.
This is your agreement: Adobe Acrobat.com yes ?

1/ Non-execution IS enforceable by COURT ORDER CCA '74 s65
2/ The terms ARE there, look at part 1 Key Financial Information
3/ Who cares
4/ OK seriously technical an NOT for the faint hearted or even a LiP to argue
5/ Yeah and ?

Yes if you have a BIG brass pair you could attempt to argue unenforceability based on serious technicalities under CCA, but TBH if you stutter you WILL be crucified. While the black and white of CCA is one thing the application is something different.
If this was a clear cut s127(3) then I would say go for it, but it isn't, so don't even try.

Your choice.

[summersun6]

Re: Mbna / Restons

Can you please explain a "Tomlin order" ?
Thanks

[Curlyben]

Re: Mbna / Restons

Tomlin order - Consumer Wiki

[wycombe]

Re: Mbna / Restons

You have not stated if you have sent a SAR yet. If not get that off ASAP with payment of £10. They (MBNA) have 40 days in which to respond and it will reveal everything that MBNA hold on you - copies of any agreements, default notice, any letters send/received, copies of statements, Comms Log etc.

All this is useful information with which you can compare against documents you already hold. If you already have a default notice check they have given you the correct time in which to remedy any default - a common MBNA mistake is to send these out by UK Mail or 2nd Class Royal Mail which does not allow enough time to remedy. Check if you still have the envelope this came in.

[paulb2905]

Re: Mbna / Restons

Wondered how this was all going?

Re: Charges - they are deemed unlawfull irrespective of amount, but would be ruled DEFINITELY unlawfull for anything above £12 and possibly unlawfull for £12 & under so claim for everything basically.

Wycombes point about Default/Termination Notice does hold some water (imho) - others disagree due to a ruling in which it was deemed "de minimus" basically of minor effect - i think it applies due to a) the fact that it is requirement of the ACT and not ambiguous & therefore not open to interpretation b) that they have a remedy already in the ACT to produce another "compliant" DN before terminating the account to remedy the breach c) the law has to be applied equally - eg if they had terminated the account 1 or more days before the DN remedy date they would be in breach so it should make no difference that they didnt terminate until any time later without producing an effective DN.

Couple of things if you made a request under SAR and they havent replied then the account goes into default and cannot be pursued in court until the default is remedied.

Also if they havent responded to your SAR within the 40 days (and you can prove you made it eg recorded delivery) they have now committed an offence and you should make a complaint to the Director at the OFT - fine + possible jail term applies (fitness for licence ultimately too)

SAR request is of limited use tbh for copy of the Agreement due to rulings in recent cases (however imho the courts have impeached Parliament as a specific section 172 in the Act already deals with this - but it will take someone with money to get this overturned - but you could argue this point)

CPR request is much better - 31.16 applies before any action 31.14 after action commences - also has the benefit that it is Free in both cases - and that it is binding on the copies provided - they must satisfy the "proof purpose". You can also use CPR18 after court proceedings start.

Going to court - you are entitled to take a "McKenzie Friend" this is someone who can support you/take notes and help with evidence BUT CANNOT address the court or their barrister.

Google "Equal Treatment Bench Book" and read sections 1.3 Unrepresented Parties and any others that relate to your circumstances.

Personally i would print this section out but at the least have a frontpage with the biggest FONT possible saying "Equal Treatment Bench Book" so that the judge can read it upside down!!!! Subliminal messaging rules..........

Make sure you have your documents in order and can thumb to the right bits very easily.
Also if the barrister says anything or asks anything along the lines of "could it have been or are you certain" make sure you say that it wasnt!! or i didnt or i clearly have no recollection of.

Remember as they are bringing the action against you it is for them to PROVE that it did/was etc

Hope this helps,

Other than that good luck or hope it has gone well!!!