MBNA & A&L Cards - Dispute under CCA

[RoryM]

I have written to MBNA about my two cards - one is MBNA and the other is Alliance and Leicester (owned by MBNA for some time)

My Subject Access Request was delivered by recorded post on 20/4/2009 and I received their response today (17/6/2009). I make that a total of 58 days, as opposed to the statutory 40 days. I submitted a complaint to the ICO on 11th June to highlight this breach.

In my original request I stated the following:

Please send me the information which I am entitled to under section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998 in relation to Account Numbers 4129 xx xx 8059 and 4129 xx xx 1240. Please would you also advise me of the logic involved in any automated decisions taken by you about us pursuant to section 7(1) (d) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

In today's response they have provided:

MBNA:
A copy of the signed credit card agreement / copy of application - poor quality! (Signed 24/1/200 by me, stamped by them 2/2/2000)
A copy of the executed agreement together with current terms and conditions
Account transaction history

They also go on to note:
"We appreciate the copy of the original agreement is not very clear in parts but it is the best copy we can provide. For avoidance of any doubt, all of the necessary and prescribed terms are included in the credit agreement. In addition, you will find terms are also set out in the copy of the current credit agreement we are providing you with, and are sufficient for the purposes of the Consumer credit Act."

A&L:
A copy of the executed agreement together with current terms and conditions
Account transaction history

They go on to note:
"A copy of the signed credit card application form and agreement is not available due to archive retrieval issues. Should we hold any correspondence for the accounts(s), in accordance with section 7 of the Data Protection Act, this will be forwarded separately within the 40 day time period"

So, my understanding is as follows:

Alliance and Leicester is pretty cut and dried - no signed agreement = unenforceable!! Am I right?

If so, is there a proper form of words I should use to get this sorted out and avoid paying them any more money in the meantime?

MBNA - they seem a bit more confident that this one is enforceable, but one key issue is that over the years, they raised my limit a number of times without me requesting it, which I understand puts them on shaky ground, although they have not responded to this point from my original request (the same applies to A&L by the way!).

What are the key points I need to look for to crack this agreement and where should I look? I don't for instance see anything that specifies the amount of credit....... Has anyone taken MBNA on and won with an agreement from about the same period?

Does the fact that they have failed to comply with the 40 days mean anything like the 12 day limit if you put in a request under the CCA?

Your help would be greatly appreciated!

[Amethyst]

Re: MBNA & A&L Cards - Dispute under CCA

MBNA - without seeing the agreement impossible to tell but if it has the prescribed terms in and sigs and is simply a legibility issue then I would expect it to be enforceable in court.

Is it like this one at all - 2000 MBNA :: IFTL front 2000 picture by citizenba - Photobucket

if you look through that album theres a few on there. But of course to give you a proper idea we really need to see your original (if you do scan it in remove personal details before posting)


they have sent you your transaction lists - do you have any charges on those to reclaim ?
Whats the position with the card at the moment ? are you managing repayments or is there a threat of court action etc ?



A&L - yep unenforceable until they provide you a copy (assuming thats pre 2007 too) - have a read of this thread - ~~~ Consumer Credit Agreements - A Guide ~~~~ inc. Letters - Legal Beagles and then come ask any questions. Should be letters you can amend to suit your circumstances in there.


No breaching the DPA 40 days limit doesnt have any effect on enforceability issues.

[RoryM]

Re: MBNA & A&L Cards - Dispute under CCA

The copy is reduced to approx A5 size so the small print is very, very small indeed! The rates table is unreadable, not least because the original document has a fold at that point making one row of the table impossible to read and the rest of it is in parts "guessable" but certainly can't be read.

I have reclaimed the charges already and they have refunded them onto the card, so I didn't see the benefit of these in any tangible way, other than reduced interest payments.

I have been paying the card without fail up to the current month.

Regards
R/

[Amethyst]

Re: MBNA & A&L Cards - Dispute under CCA

to get the original you could try a request under cpr 31 (pre action disclosure) but think they might be in their rights to refuse as theres no action pending on the account. Otherwise an argument on legibility may be able to get you to frozen interest/charges or reduced settlement offer.

Will ask someone to have a look as legibility of these agreements I don't know enough about.

whats your basic aim ? I assume getting the balance written off ? I'm not sure that will be possible but you can certainly use such a poor copy as a negotiating tool if you want to.

The limit raising takes it back to irresponsible lending, very very difficult to prove and get any form of redress on unless there are very striking issues alongside it (such as mental health / unemployment etc)

[RoryM]

Re: MBNA & A&L Cards - Dispute under CCA

I guess part of it is that if the prescribed terms are there but you can't read them, then how enforceable can they be......?

[Amethyst]

Re: MBNA & A&L Cards - Dispute under CCA

well I suppose they can argue they sent you readable ones the same...

[RoryM]

Re: MBNA & A&L Cards - Dispute under CCA

I'm coming at it in the context of this extract from http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...9&d=1193876017

Which says:

In these Regulations--
"the Act" means the Consumer Credit Act 1974;
"Agreements Regulations" means the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 and any reference to any provision of those Regulations includes in the case of modifying agreements which are, or are treated as, regulated agreements a reference to Regulation 7 of, and the appropriate paragraph of Schedule 8 to, those Regulations;
"cancellable agreement" includes an agreement which is a modifying agreement treated under section 82(5) of the Act as a cancellable agreement; and
"lettering" includes figures and symbols.

UK Parliament SIs 1980-1989/1983/1551-1600/Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)/2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms
(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the [background medium upon which the information is displayed].