Egg CCA Enforceable?

[hewhosimplyis]

Hi all,

Well I've been reading plenty about enforceable/unenforceable CCA's recently, and I'm currently considering the legalities of my Egg CCA.

I've requested my CCA and received the usual printout supplied to so many, but despite considerable discussion on various consumer forums, no one seems confident to say that this type of agreement is unenforceable in court.

The crux of my argument is based on the prescribed term "Limit" being used by Egg, when it must be "Credit Limit", and the fact that the signature is on another page, seperate from the terms, although its not clear if this is the reverse of the first page.

I'm surprised to find that no one seems to have challenged Egg on this matter, yet its been raised on many occassions in different forums.

Is it an omen? Have Egg really got us by the short-n-curleys with these agreements?

Any comments welcome.

Here's the image links:

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/p...salt/REGG2.jpg
http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/p...salt/REGG1.jpg

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

If that went to court, it would get enforced, no question.

[Curlyben]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

No one has challenged Egg as their agreements are compliant with CCA.

Be like flogging a dead horse really

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

No one has challenged Egg as their agreements are compliant with CCA.

Be like flogging a dead horse really

Aw sh!te. My first horse died 7 years ago today. :tinysmile_cry_t:

[hewhosimplyis]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

Thanks for the responses. All I can say is ...bugger.

[Curlyben]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

Just a note.
The Consumer Credit Act was NOT enacted for people to avoid paying any legitimate debts.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

How true, CB. But I still love what Francis Bennion has to say about his baby...

As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County TrustLtd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97.

Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section 127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed that nobody’s human rights were infringed.

[Curlyben]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

Too right there LB.

I like Sir Andrew Morritt's quote in Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2001] 3 All ER 229

In effect, the creditor--by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms--must (in the light of the provisions in ss65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan moneys to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the moneys in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid;

Compliance with the Act isn't really all that difficult.
All it really takes is THREE pieces of information:

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 of Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 SI1553 are as follows:

• credit limit
• repayments
• rate of interest

Now that's NOT rocket science now is it

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

It was apparently way beyond the wit of most credit card firms for years though. :crazy:

[cds]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

I have been reading cca 1983 amendments, and it states where the prescribed term apr is variable this should be shown.

I find the 1983 amendments rather confusing because they are intermingled with 2004 amendments and later, could anybody enlighten me to which date the above applies.

thanks

cds

[Curlyben]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

There are alot of CCA SI's from 1983, which one(s)/part(s) are you referring to ?

If you mean 1553 it was enforced from 15th May 1985.

There has also been alot of amendments, mostly namely:

Amendment
Para (3): substituted by SI 2004/1482, regs 2, 9(1), (2).
Date in force: 31 May 2005: see SI 2004/1482, reg 1; for transitional provisions see reg 18 thereof.
Para (4): substituted by SI 2004/1482, regs 2, 9(1), (3) (as amended by SI 2004/2619, reg 2(1), (4)).
Date in force: 31 May 2005: see SI 2004/1482, reg 1; for transitional provisions see reg 18 thereof.
Para (5): words "the information required by paragraph (4)(d) above" in square brackets substituted by SI 2004/1482, regs
2, 9(1), (4).
Date in force: 31 May 2005: see SI 2004/1482, reg 1; for transitional provisions see reg 18 thereof.
Para (6): sub-para (b) substituted by SI 2004/1482, regs 2, 9(1), (5).
Date in force: 31 May 2005: see SI 2004/1482, reg 1; for transitional provisions see reg 18 thereof.
Para (11): substituted by SI 2004/1482, regs 2, 9(1), (6).
Date in force: 31 May 2005: see SI 2004/1482, reg 1; for transitional provisions see reg 18 thereof.
UK Parliament SIs 1980-1989/1983/1551-1600/Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI
1983/1553)/8 Application of Regulations

and of course the MAJOR one being the repeal of CCA 74 s127(3) with CCA 2006

[cds]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

sorry I'm new here!

thanks for replying

cds

[BTC]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

I thought you might be interested to note that as of April 2009 Egg have changed their Terms and Conditions and e-mailed customers.
One significant change is
Credit Limit
' We will set and and tell you the Credit Limit from time to time.'
My emphasis.
Have they acknowleged a flaw in the old agreement?
Any views would be welcome.

[seriously fed up]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

If that went to court, it would get enforced, no question.

I am a wee bit surprised by that opinion LuggerBugs
The Consumer Credit Act is quite clear - section 60 (1) (b) that the debtor must be made aware of in the loan documents of "the amount and rate of the total charge for credit (in the case of a consumer credit agreement),"
Two things

1. I know that there is an element of sophistry here (though its fair to say that this is the lawyer's trade very often) but does "Approved limit" really do the business here? My view would be that a properly set out CCA would say "your credit limit is £xxxx, though we take the right to vary this as we see fit in the future".
2. in respect of "total charge", their APRs are wrong, certainly for cash purchases. They say that there will be a handling fee of 1.25%, so if I take out £100, my statement would say £101.25. To that Egg would add their cash rate of 16.3% (according to what they sent me) so at the end of the year, that amount would stand at £117.75 - or a true rate of 17.75%. So the COST of credit is wrongly stated.

As I think we all know, an error in a CCA of this type specifically (section 127) prevents the court from enforcing. So, sorry I dont follow your view that this "would be enforced, no question".

[fatbhoyslim]

Re: Egg CCA Enforceable?

Hi all,
sorry but am new to this site and still finding my way about. From reading this thread, would I be right in saying that Egg agreements are rock solid and contain no flaws as per the CCA?

Ta!