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Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

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  • Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

    I need to get a default removed as it is impacting my credibility to get a job. I usually work in the Financial Services Sector, on a contract basis. So credit checks are the norm there but they have a restricted their conditions recently. So despite working in this bank for 5 years on previous occasions, the offer of a 10 week contract was withdrawn last month, because of a credit check failure. This has been detrimental for myself and my family as I am now without a job.
    The credit check failed because of a default placed by Sainsbury's Bank 3 years ago.
    This happened soon after my husband was taken ill and had to go through treatments for 6 months then. He had to work part time as his employers did not provide any sick pay, so we hit a financial low.

    We had been paying the minimum contractual payments so far, but when a Debt Management Company approached us and said they could help us out with the credit cards payments, we agreed. They put us on a DMP with all our credit card lenders in February 2012. They also advised not to pay or have contact with the credit card lenders. All the lenders agreed to the arrangement.
    The DMC missed the March 2012 payment and paid a token payment for April 2012, as they were slow in the process of setting up the DMP, but they also missed a payment in July 2012.
    This instigated Sainsbury’s to write threatening letters, notices of bailiffs and harassing calls. Then they applied the default without notifying us in June 2012 but I only learnt about it in October 2012, when my employer did a credit check, as they do for contractors, and advised that my job could be in jeopardy if the debts were not paid. I had changed jobs by them and in November 2012, my husband had resumed full time work, so we were able to make partial settlements with some of the credit cards, though I still had to sell some jewellery and borrow from family.
    The cards I settled had sent default notices but didn't apply a default as I settled the debt within the 28 days of the notice.

    I also partially settled with Sainsbury's Bank but because they had passed on the debt to Blair, Oliver & Scott and then Wescot, it took longer to sort out and pay off. I paid this off by the end of February 2013. If Sainsbury's Bank had sent a notice I would have settled their balance much earlier and the default would not have been applied.
    They refused to remove the default despite contacting them many times in the last three years, via phone and email. They still send me statements every 6 months to say I am in arrears, and I need to pay them, even though Wescot said I would not be pursued by Sainsbury’s for the remaining amount. No other lender does this.
    Since I have no job at the moment I have had more time to look into the credit file held by all 3 CRAs. I have been reading the posts on this forum and looking at the Guidance for Defaults by the ICO.
    I don’t think they have complied with the principles and guidance given in these documents issued by the Information Commissioners Office.
    According to this, there are many inconsistencies in the way the Sainsbury’s Bank dealt with my situation.
    When I look into the credit files, there are so many anomalies, I’m confused as to why they are recorded this way.
    The balances and information recorded are not consistent between Experian, Equifax and Callcredit and only Barclaycard recorded this as “Arrangement to Pay” on my credit file.


    As the Customer Relations team were refusing to accept my request, I emailed the CEO with my grievances which were:
    However the Executive Complaints team passed this back to the Customer Relations team.
    A lady called me from this team, this Wednesday, to say they still refuse to remove the default.
    The reasons do not add up and are basically excuses to cover up their aggressive and rushed actions.
    She said the default added was because the missed/reduced payments that add up to 4 contractual payments – this is incorrect. How can two missed payments and one low payment add up to that? The rest were reduced payments. Also the purpose of a Debt Management Plan is to prevent a default as reduced payments should be registered as Agreed Payments, but this was not applied on my credit file. Only one lender showed this.
    She advised that they do not have a copy of the Default Notice but she could send a Template out.
    How is that possible? I have all the letters sent to me by Sainsbury’s Bank, but they don’t. It's only been 3 years.
    Also why wasn’t an Intention to Default sent out first? Why does Sainsbury’s Bank say they have issued a Default Notice when they have no record of it? They already said in a letter that there was no Default Notice, just a default was applied.

    She accepted that they don’t even have the original agreement.
    She ended the conversation that she could give me £100 compensation for not recording "partially settled" on my credit report, which I refused, and that she would pass her report on to the Executive Office who would then write to me. They wrote saying that they will correct the file with a cheque of £300 compensation.
    This is not what I want.
    If anything, they should compensate me for the 10 week job that I lost last month and remove the default.
    The recruitment agency I was working with have advised to take this up with a legal advisor, and take Sainsbury's Bank to court.
    I am not sure who to approach for this and how to go about this.
    Can you advise?

    Apologies for the long story.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

    Originally posted by Raknah View Post
    I need to get a default removed as it is impacting my credibility to get a job. I usually work in the Financial Services Sector, on a contract basis. So credit checks are the norm there but they have a restricted their conditions recently. So despite working in this bank for 5 years on previous occasions, the offer of a 10 week contract was withdrawn last month, because of a credit check failure. This has been detrimental for myself and my family as I am now without a job.
    The credit check failed because of a default placed by Sainsbury's Bank 3 years ago.
    This happened soon after my husband was taken ill and had to go through treatments for 6 months then. He had to work part time as his employers did not provide any sick pay, so we hit a financial low.

    We had been paying the minimum contractual payments so far, but when a Debt Management Company approached us and said they could help us out with the credit cards payments, we agreed. They put us on a DMP with all our credit card lenders in February 2012. They also advised not to pay or have contact with the credit card lenders. All the lenders agreed to the arrangement.
    The DMC missed the March 2012 payment and paid a token payment for April 2012, as they were slow in the process of setting up the DMP, but they also missed a payment in July 2012.
    This instigated Sainsbury’s to write threatening letters, notices of bailiffs and harassing calls. Then they applied the default without notifying us in June 2012 but I only learnt about it in October 2012, when my employer did a credit check, as they do for contractors, and advised that my job could be in jeopardy if the debts were not paid. I had changed jobs by them and in November 2012, my husband had resumed full time work, so we were able to make partial settlements with some of the credit cards, though I still had to sell some jewellery and borrow from family.
    The cards I settled had sent default notices but didn't apply a default as I settled the debt within the 28 days of the notice.

    I also partially settled with Sainsbury's Bank but because they had passed on the debt to Blair, Oliver & Scott and then Wescot, it took longer to sort out and pay off. I paid this off by the end of February 2013. If Sainsbury's Bank had sent a notice I would have settled their balance much earlier and the default would not have been applied.
    They refused to remove the default despite contacting them many times in the last three years, via phone and email. They still send me statements every 6 months to say I am in arrears, and I need to pay them, even though Wescot said I would not be pursued by Sainsbury’s for the remaining amount. No other lender does this.
    Since I have no job at the moment I have had more time to look into the credit file held by all 3 CRAs. I have been reading the posts on this forum and looking at the Guidance for Defaults by the ICO.
    I don’t think they have complied with the principles and guidance given in these documents issued by the Information Commissioners Office.
    According to this, there are many inconsistencies in the way the Sainsbury’s Bank dealt with my situation.
    When I look into the credit files, there are so many anomalies, I’m confused as to why they are recorded this way.
    The balances and information recorded are not consistent between Experian, Equifax and Callcredit and only Barclaycard recorded this as “Arrangement to Pay” on my credit file.


    As the Customer Relations team were refusing to accept my request, I emailed the CEO with my grievances which were:
    However the Executive Complaints team passed this back to the Customer Relations team.
    A lady called me from this team, this Wednesday, to say they still refuse to remove the default.
    The reasons do not add up and are basically excuses to cover up their aggressive and rushed actions.
    She said the default added was because the missed/reduced payments that add up to 4 contractual payments – this is incorrect. How can two missed payments and one low payment add up to that? The rest were reduced payments. Also the purpose of a Debt Management Plan is to prevent a default as reduced payments should be registered as Agreed Payments, but this was not applied on my credit file. Only one lender showed this.
    She advised that they do not have a copy of the Default Notice but she could send a Template out.
    How is that possible? I have all the letters sent to me by Sainsbury’s Bank, but they don’t. It's only been 3 years.
    Also why wasn’t an Intention to Default sent out first? Why does Sainsbury’s Bank say they have issued a Default Notice when they have no record of it? They already said in a letter that there was no Default Notice, just a default was applied.

    She accepted that they don’t even have the original agreement.
    She ended the conversation that she could give me £100 compensation for not recording "partially settled" on my credit report, which I refused, and that she would pass her report on to the Executive Office who would then write to me. They wrote saying that they will correct the file with a cheque of £300 compensation.
    This is not what I want.
    If anything, they should compensate me for the 10 week job that I lost last month and remove the default.
    The recruitment agency I was working with have advised to take this up with a legal advisor, and take Sainsbury's Bank to court.
    I am not sure who to approach for this and how to go about this.
    Can you advise?

    Apologies for the long story.
    Hi Welcome to LB.

    A few things jump out of your story immediately.

    The Credit Files and their content is regulated by the Information Commissioners Office
    and the subject of defaults is a common point for discussion.
    A defaulted account remains on credit files for 6 years from the default date and are
    removed on the 6 th. anniversary of the default paid or not

    The credit files have to be accurate and up to date so a default is and remains part of the credit record,
    there is after changes in the ICO's guidance on defaults little chance of getting one removed, unless
    it was incorrect in the first instance.

    Secondly the reporting to the CRA's seem correct to me as any arrangement to pay, missed payments and payment
    lower than the contractually required payment are defaults on the original terms and conditions of the account.

    The third point accounts are usually defaulted prior to entry to a DMP.

    It is also correct ( and this seems to have been corrected in your case) that if a defaulted account is partially paid of the credit files
    are marked " partially satisfied" which is a true and accurate picture of the conduct of the account ( generous redress seems to have been made/offered for not recording as partially satisfied).

    There is as far as I can see nothing incorrect in the way he debts have been recorded.

    As to default notices Sainsbury will have a record of on internal files, they are not obliged to archive hard
    copies a DN is considered a generic document.

    The information above is from dealing with CRA File over many years and knowledge of the ICO Technical Guidance on Defaults
    and the amendments and updates.

    The only option really for you is to seek a "gesture of good will" from the creditor explaining the difficulties with your employment.

    There is no obligation for the creditor to agree.

    To take this further I think and attempt to get any " compensation" for the alleged " loss" you will need to make a county court claim.

    nem

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

      Originally posted by nemesis45 View Post
      Hi Welcome to LB.

      A few things jump out of your story immediately.

      The Credit Files and their content is regulated by the Information Commissioners Office
      and the subject of defaults is a common point for discussion.
      A defaulted account remains on credit files for 6 years from the default date and are
      removed on the 6 th. anniversary of the default paid or not

      The credit files have to be accurate and up to date so a default is and remains part of the credit record,
      there is after changes in the ICO's guidance on defaults little chance of getting one removed, unless
      it was incorrect in the first instance.

      Secondly the reporting to the CRA's seem correct to me as any arrangement to pay, missed payments and payment
      lower than the contractually required payment are defaults on the original terms and conditions of the account.

      The third point accounts are usually defaulted prior to entry to a DMP.

      It is also correct ( and this seems to have been corrected in your case) that if a defaulted account is partially paid of the credit files
      are marked " partially satisfied" which is a true and accurate picture of the conduct of the account ( generous redress seems to have been made/offered for not recording as partially satisfied).

      There is as far as I can see nothing incorrect in the way he debts have been recorded.

      As to default notices Sainsbury will have a record of on internal files, they are not obliged to archive hard
      copies a DN is considered a generic document.

      The information above is from dealing with CRA File over many years and knowledge of the ICO Technical Guidance on Defaults
      and the amendments and updates.

      The only option really for you is to seek a "gesture of good will" from the creditor explaining the difficulties with your employment.

      There is no obligation for the creditor to agree.

      To take this further I think and attempt to get any " compensation" for the alleged " loss" you will need to make a county court claim.

      nem
      Hi nemesis45,

      Thank you for the welcome.

      I have asked the lender to remove this due to my employment situation, however they did not agree.

      Thank you for the advice.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

        Originally posted by Raknah View Post
        Hi nemesis45,

        Thank you for the welcome.

        I have asked the lender to remove this due to my employment situation, however they did not agree.

        Thank you for the advice.
        Happy to help two years ago this would have been relatively simple to deal with, now with the ICO's
        insistence that credit file entries must show the true conduct of a credit account it has become exceedingly
        difficult to remove defaults.

        You could take this to the ICO but I can't see any breach of the ICO's Protocols.

        nem

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

          hello, I think nemesis advice is correct, but I was wondering do you have a copy of the default notice that sainsburys sent to you?

          edit: sorry just re-read your post, you don't have a default notice sent to you they just applied one?

          Have you sent a SAR request to sainsburys to see what they have on you?
          If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          LEGAL DISCLAIMER
          Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

            Originally posted by R0b View Post
            hello, I think nemesis advice is correct, but I was wondering do you have a copy of the default notice that sainsburys sent to you?

            edit: sorry just re-read your post, you don't have a default notice sent to you they just applied one?

            Have you sent a SAR request to sainsburys to see what they have on you?
            Hi R0b,
            I didn't send a SAR request but I did ask them for the Default Notice they claim they sent, but they cannot supply a copy of it. They said they could send a Template of what they would have sent.
            Thanks

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

              What upsets me the most is that my credit history has been destroyed for the incorrect actions of a Debt Management Company, even though I had been paying them regularly.
              If they had not gone into liquidation then I would have pursued them. However this would not have removed the defaults.
              I entrusted them with the payments of my credit cards but I have had to bear the consequences of their irresponsible actions.
              How is this justified?
              Anyone could get into a financial problem due to a change in their circumstance so if , unknown to them, they end up with a rogue Debt Management Company then is it fair that this person should be penalised for 6 years with defaults, CCJs, etc..

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

                It might be worth sending a SAR request. They should obviously be complying with the laws, but it is in my mind that if they haven't complied then surely they cannot enter a default on your credit file? If they have stated that there is no record of this default notice on file then to my mind it doesn't appear they have sent it.

                Get a SAR request to them find out what they hold and it shouldn't be too difficult as it wasn't so long ago and take it from there.

                IF they failed to send default notice letter and then proceeded to terminate your agreement that could potentially make them liable for wrongful termination!
                If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
                - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

                  We had been paying the minimum contractual payments so far, but when a Debt Management Company approached us and said they could help us out with the credit cards payments, we agreed.
                  Did the DMP company (who was it? a commercial one I assume as the non fee charges don't usually approach people!) explain how a DMP could affect your credit file? Could you have kept on paying the minimums or did you have no choice but to pay less?

                  Also the purpose of a Debt Management Plan is to prevent a default as reduced payments should be registered as Agreed Payments, but this was not applied on my credit file
                  This isn't correct. the purpose of a DMP is to allow you to make lower payments and, hopefully, have interest and charges stopped. It can be recorded on your file as an arrangement to pay, but if you get to a point where you are 3-6 months in arrears compared what the original contractual payments were, the lender is perfectly entitled to mark your credit files as defaulted. Not all will - that is why Barclaycard hasn't but the others have.

                  She advised that they do not have a copy of the Default Notice but she could send a Template out.
                  A default notice is a standard form letter and a creditor does not have to keep a copy of the excat notice sent to you I am afraid.

                  If Sainsbury's Bank had sent a notice I would have settled their balance much earlier and the default would not have been applied.
                  If you were to take this to court, the judge is very likely to take the view that you should have settled these debts as soon as you were able, not waiting for a notice about a default.

                  The recruitment agency I was working with have advised to take this up with a legal advisor, and take Sainsbury's Bank to court.
                  from what you have said, I can't see that you have a case against Sainsburys. IF you want to, you could write to the ICO and ask them to look at it, but I would be surprised if the default was removed or you got more than the offered £300.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

                    Originally posted by Raknah View Post
                    What upsets me the most is that my credit history has been destroyed for the incorrect actions of a Debt Management Company, even though I had been paying them regularly.
                    If they had not gone into liquidation then I would have pursued them. However this would not have removed the defaults.
                    I entrusted them with the payments of my credit cards but I have had to bear the consequences of their irresponsible actions.
                    How is this justified?
                    Anyone could get into a financial problem due to a change in their circumstance so if , unknown to them, they end up with a rogue Debt Management Company then is it fair that this person should be penalised for 6 years with defaults, CCJs, etc..
                    The defaults were the result of you being in a DMP. They may or may not have been triggered by a missed payment from the DMP company, but they are very likely to have happened even if the DMP company had made all the payments.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

                      Originally posted by Debt Camel View Post
                      A default notice is a standard form letter and a creditor does not have to keep a copy of the excat notice sent to you I am afraid.
                      Hi Debt Camel, not that I am disputing what you are saying but I just wanted to be clear on this point.

                      If a creditor is obliged to send a default notice regardless of it being standard form or not and must be addressed to the debtor then surely this should at least be kept on file? If a debtor disputes that a default notice has ever been sent and the creditor confirms that they have no proof of one actually being sent then surely the creditor is in breach of their obligations and that default notice is deemed to be invalid which in turn has a knock on effect because the creditor would have then terminated the agreement on the basis of a default notice and as per my previous post, if not done correctly and there is no proof then the debtor would have a claim for wrongful termination and claim damages?
                      If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
                      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                      LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                      Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

                        ICO's current stance.

                        CRA Default on a credit file Vs default under the CCA

                        I was not sent any default notices, should the default on my credit reference file be removed?

                        In most cases, the answer will be ‘no’, provided that adequate fair processing information was provided when the account was originally opened.

                        It may help to explain that a “default” on an individual’s credit file does not mean that an individual has been defaulted under the Consumer Credit Act; essentially, the same word is being used to describe two slightly different things (which can obviously lead to some confusion). Instead, a “default” on a credit file simply means the lender considers the relationship between itself and the individual to have broken down.

                        Therefore, whilst it may be a requirement of the Consumer Credit Act to issue default notices, there is no DPA obligation on a lender to issue a default notice to individuals before marking an account as being in default on their credit file. Although we advise that it is good practice to issue a notice, lenders will often have provided individuals with fair processing information about defaults and notices in the terms and conditions when the account was opened. Provided this was the case, then it is likely to satisfy the “fairness” aspects of the first principle.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

                          Originally posted by R0b View Post
                          Hi Debt Camel, not that I am disputing what you are saying but I just wanted to be clear on this point.

                          If a creditor is obliged to send a default notice regardless of it being standard form or not and must be addressed to the debtor then surely this should at least be kept on file? If a debtor disputes that a default notice has ever been sent and the creditor confirms that they have no proof of one actually being sent then surely the creditor is in breach of their obligations and that default notice is deemed to be invalid which in turn has a knock on effect because the creditor would have then terminated the agreement on the basis of a default notice and as per my previous post, if not done correctly and there is no proof then the debtor would have a claim for wrongful termination and claim damages?
                          Quite simply no R0b DN's are considered generic and there is no obligation to archive hard copies, am annotation on the customers record that a DN was sent on a specific date is all that is required which is why often a " template" or a recon is supplied with a SAR for example or CPR 31.14 request.

                          IF and it's a big if the customers file has not been updated when a DN was issued then there may be problem.

                          nem

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

                            Sure I appreciate that, I think what I am trying to get at is reference to Principle 5 DPA - retaining data as long as is necessary would therefore fall under what the FCA deems reasonable i.e. 6 years.

                            My point being that where there is no proof has been made this could potentially be abused by the creditor by just inserting an entry into a customer file saying that a DN was sent at such date? It just seems surprising that something very much important as a DN which must be sent to a debtor before any action such as termination of the agreement can take place does not need to be held on record and a template of what they would normally send is sufficient

                            Is there any case law or other provisions that suggest this or is this custom and practice in this area?
                            If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
                            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                            LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                            Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Need to have Sainsbury's default removed (debt is settled)

                              Originally posted by R0b View Post
                              Sure I appreciate that, I think what I am trying to get at is reference to Principle 5 DPA - retaining data as long as is necessary would therefore fall under what the FCA deems reasonable i.e. 6 years.

                              My point being that where there is no proof has been made this could potentially be abused by the creditor by just inserting an entry into a customer file saying that a DN was sent at such date? It just seems surprising that something very much important as a DN which must be sent to a debtor before any action such as termination of the agreement can take place does not need to be held on record and a template of what they would normally send is sufficient

                              Is there any case law or other provisions that suggest this or is this custom and practice in this area?
                              I agree R0b the same applies to NOA's, the reason for this is as I see it these documents as many of the alleged " solicitors" in the debt collection mire often stat the documents left the creditors control once posted.
                              Having seen quite a few " internal " records of client accounts I have always seen the annotation clearly printed e.g. DN issued 10/11/2015 Default Sum £ xx Remedy Date (or similar wording). Seen the these printed out and used as evidence.

                              It strikes me that without such annotation the creditors operatives would not be able to continue to process the account in the appropriate manner i.e. confirming the default status has been remedied or not and moving the process further.

                              nem

                              Comment

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