Help with Fraudulent accounts

[bigbigproblems]

Someone opened 3 accounts in my name for a phone company. I did not realise this as I was not living at home. However when I did come home and realise the bills I called up the phone company. They said they would look into this and get back to me... They never did. This was in 2011

I thought it had gone away. I then got some letters from debt companies - thinking it was junk I filed it in a bin. That was a mistake. However one of the debt companies tried to take me to court, however when presented with evidence that I was not in the area at that time, they discontinued the case the day before it was meant to go to court. This was in 2013.

I then spoke to the phone company again. They said they were still looking into it! They asked for my email address and said they would get back to me. This time I kept a screen shot of the online conversation as I did not trust them.

I recently checked my credit file before applying for a mortgage. I have three defaults on it. Two from Lowells and one from Cabot financial. I called up these companies and they said they were defaults for phone accounts! I disputed this. I then called up the phone company - they put my through to someone from their "fraud" department. She was rude and didn't even want to take my crime reference number. She said it looked like "someone I know!" had opened the account. Apparently this is "civil fraud, and not the type we are interested in".

I then wrote a letter to the CEO. I spoke to someone from their executive department who said he had spoken to the fraud team, and there was nothing he could do. He has agreed to send me a letter saying they will do nothing.

I have filed a claim in the county court - for a breach of the data protection act. What I am looking for is some advice on what else I should do now. Can anyone recommend a decent solicitor in the hampshire area who might take this on? I do have funds to pay them - but obviously cannot afford for this to cost me many thousands of pounds.

Thanks

Sam

[bigbigproblems]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

Also just for clarity - I have also complained to the ICO (still waiting to hear back from them).

And I'm not really interested in compensation. I just want these incorrect defaults removed from my account. I called up the Ombudsman - Communications, but apparently they do not deal with cases involving fraud so there is nothing I can do there.

[Tools]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

Were the 3 accounts all with the same provider?

If so send them a Subject Access Request asking for all details they have relating to you and any information about the accounts.

You should also contact the Credit Reference Agencies that have the defaults showing and tell them to correct it, for example experian can be contacted here http://www.experian.co.uk/consumer/c...ontact-us.html

[bigbigproblems]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

Were the 3 accounts all with the same provider?

If so send them a Subject Access Request asking for all details they have relating to you and any information about the accounts.

You should also contact the Credit Reference Agencies that have the defaults showing and tell them to correct it, for example experian can be contacted here http://www.experian.co.uk/consumer/c...ontact-us.html

Yes all with the same provider. I have contacted the CRA's however the information that they have come back to me with is:

1) The companies are looking into this so we won't change the information.
2) The companies feel the information is correct so we will not change it.

(By companies I mean the DCA and not the original phone company - as they are now the data controller).

I have done some research - and from what I can see the only way to resolve this in a timely manner is to raise a claim in small claims court. I've already done that - however I now feel that I may have just thrown good money down the drain as I don't really know a lot about the law, and I am sure that they will be able to get it struck out as I am not an expert in law and have probably worded it wrong.

However - rightly or wrongly, I thought it was better to first claim against the phone company, as they have the power to close the defaults, and even if I cock it up I can have a second bite of the cherry with the debt collection companies.

A subject access request might be a good idea - however as I didn't open the accounts I don't see how it would be useful to me. Also I read that there is a requirement for them to provide the evidence at court.

Overall - all I wan't is for these defaults to be removed. Best case scenario - is that they will remove them when they get the claim. Either because they think it is the right thing to do, or because they don't think it's worth the hassle to fight it.

However I am looking to hear from others experiences of this - and also from anyone qualified. I am interested in knowing how much a solicitor would cost me as well. I don't mind paying a fair amount - however as this could take many hours I don't want to get stumped for thousands.

[enquirer]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

As already suggested by Tools, file a SAR.

Until you access the paper trail, it will be difficult to challenge them.

[Tools]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

Also read here http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...-Vital-Reading

Who is the phone company?

[bluebottle]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

Before you commence ANY form of legal action, Sam, I would stop, draw breath and have a good hard think about what outcome you are seeking.

As the others have quite rightly recommended, an SAR is the first step to sorting out this matter. It would also be better to speak to the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) about the data protection issues, rather than go straight into litigation. The ICO has the power to fine those who breach the DPA and the maximum fine is £500,000.

As for the comments the phone company's Fraud Department has made, it sounds very much to me that they have little or no experience or knowledge of what constitutes fraud or how it is investigated. Unless the phone company can prove "someone you know" opened the accounts, they cannot say that. It certainly would not stand up in a court of law as if put to strict proof, I have no doubt any claim relying on that as evidence would fail. I would be very interested to hear their explanation of "civil fraud". Fraud has certainly taken place and it is by someone who has used your personal details to open accounts in your name and run up substantial bills. That is a criminal and not a civil matter.

I feel your best course of action, initially, is to seek an SAR from the phone company, see what papertrail exists and then come back onto this thread so we can help you plan your next step. I would not, however, be too quick to enter into litigation.

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

Hi big big problems as BB says before you start thinking of legal action get a good idea of what and how you would allege Fraud.
This is a good read for you and eveyone else I think.
Sparkie
http://www.guildhallchambers.co.uk/f...ember_2012.pdf

[bluebottle]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

The fraud has been committed by a third party, unknown to the OP, and the phone company is trying to make the OP pay for the bills. The fact that a DCA backed down from a confrontation in court says a lot. It is a pity the DCA was not put to strict proof and an Unless Order obtained and the claim struck out.

[Tools]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

I was wanting to know the provider Sam, as if it was Vodafone we do have a rep on the forum who may be able to assist sorting this out quickly without the need for a SAR, the ICO or court action.

[bigbigproblems]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

The company are O2. I'm trying not to say too much as it would not be too hard to work out who I am if you worked for O2 from the information I have given. Maybe I am being overly cautious, but I would imagine they would look on sites like this, and use it against people making a claim against them.

I have already issued the claim now and paid the fees so it's too late to change that.

I will send the SAR tomorrow - however I only really want them to remove the defaults. I have read the link to ICO guidelines - and it appears to me that if I dispute the accounts they should challenge this in a court of law before defaulting (I might have got this wrong). However when they debt collection company tried - they backed down as soon as I showed them any of proof.

Overall - it's just an unfair situation. If I had taken out the accounts I would pay my bills. I can send a screen shot of my equifax to a moderator if in dispute showing ALL of my bills get paid on time and in full. This company have ruined my credit rating - and now I can't get a mortgage or even a decent credit card.

[bigbigproblems]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

Before you commence ANY form of legal action, Sam, I would stop, draw breath and have a good hard think about what outcome you are seeking.

As the others have quite rightly recommended, an SAR is the first step to sorting out this matter. It would also be better to speak to the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) about the data protection issues, rather than go straight into litigation. The ICO has the power to fine those who breach the DPA and the maximum fine is £500,000.

As for the comments the phone company's Fraud Department has made, it sounds very much to me that they have little or no experience or knowledge of what constitutes fraud or how it is investigated. Unless the phone company can prove "someone you know" opened the accounts, they cannot say that. It certainly would not stand up in a court of law as if put to strict proof, I have no doubt any claim relying on that as evidence would fail. I would be very interested to hear their explanation of "civil fraud". Fraud has certainly taken place and it is by someone who has used your personal details to open accounts in your name and run up substantial bills. That is a criminal and not a civil matter.

I feel your best course of action, initially, is to seek an SAR from the phone company, see what papertrail exists and then come back onto this thread so we can help you plan your next step. I would not, however, be too quick to enter into litigation.

The problem with the SAR - is that O2 have said to me that they will not look into this any further! They have even said they are sending me a deadlock letter. They don't seem interested in sorting this out. The ombudsman say they do not deal with fraud cases - I've emailed the ICO (however had heard stories of them taking years to sort things).

I need/want this sorting asap. So small claims court seems like the quickest method. As I've already said - not interested in compensation, but am interested in getting this squared away.

[bigbigproblems]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

Hi big big problems as BB says before you start thinking of legal action get a good idea of what and how you would allege Fraud.
This is a good read for you and eveyone else I think.
Sparkie
http://www.guildhallchambers.co.uk/f...ember_2012.pdf

My claim is not based on me proving fraud - which incidentally I can do (atleast on the balance of probabilities). It is a claim for breach of the DPA - as far as I can see it is for them to prove the debt. Overall it's a complicated mess.

My hope is that they decide it's not worth the hassle and when someone a bit more senior looks at the account they can see that they are in the wrong. I'd settle for my costs and the removal of the default. It just takes to be seen if they want to instruct a solicitor/barrister for a case they probably won't win.

As I see it - this is my first shot at it. If I lose, then I can use this is a learning process and then use it against the DCA's. As I see it - just because O2 can say they have not breached the DPA (which they can only do if I make some silly mistakes or get a rubbish judge), it does not apply to the DCA's.

I am confident of getting this resolved - but I don't know how long it will take and how much energy it will absorb.

[bluebottle]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

The onus is on O2 to prove you owe them money, not the other way round. They hope you don't know this, will give up and pay up. However, the fact that a DCA bottled out the day before a court hearing tends to give weight to the fact that they realised there was something not right about the alleged debt and should have reported this back to O2. If they did not, they need a good hard kick up the backside from the regulators, which is now the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA).

However, speaking as a retired policeman, I feel you would be better going to the ICO. Investigations do take time, so be patient. Remember that the ICO can hit O2 and the DCAs with eye-watering fines and the FCA can revoke or threaten to revoke DCAs' debt collection licences. Sometimes, the regulatory route achieves better results than the court route.

[bigbigproblems]

Re: Help with Fraudulent accounts

The onus is on O2 to prove you owe them money, not the other way round. They hope you don't know this, will give up and pay up. However, the fact that a DCA bottled out the day before a court hearing tends to give weight to the fact that they realised there was something not right about the alleged debt and should have reported this back to O2. If they did not, they need a good hard kick up the backside from the regulators, which is now the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA).

However, speaking as a retired policeman, I feel you would be better going to the ICO. Investigations do take time, so be patient. Remember that the ICO can hit O2 and the DCAs with eye-watering fines and the FCA can revoke or threaten to revoke DCAs' debt collection licences. Sometimes, the regulatory route achieves better results than the court route.

What I dislike and find grossly unfair about the current system is that it's analogous to the Police however much much more unfair to the common man.

If the Police believe I had committed an offence, they would investigate it - take me to court and if found guilty I would have a criminal record until it is spent. Before they took to me to court, and if found not guilty they would not be able to go around telling people I was a criminal. (Save in very exceptional cases, involving enhanced DBS checks).

However companies can just ruin your credit rating with no come back. Unlike the Police they do not have to answer to anyone. As someone who pays his bills this is just grossly wrong.

Having these defaults have similar affects as having a criminal record. They can stop you getting a job as some companies will credit check you. They stop you getting a mortgage or any credit. This can mean you can't get a car, or start a company.

They affectively ruin your life for 6 years. All without even having to go to a court to apply this information. I didn't know for a long time, as I am weird in that I don't really use credit cards and have never taken a loan. I buy my cars in cash etc... However I now realise that even when I apply to rent a house they credit check me. It's humiliating and unjust.

Given the company in question have admitted (I've recorded the conversation) that it "looks like someone you may know has opened the accounts" I don't think this is right.