ARROW GLOBAL FSO & ICO Quite a Few Questions

[T18]

Just looking for some advice on getting my default removed with Arrow Global. Also trying to find out if anyone has had any luck with getting a default removed with the FSO and reporting Arrow global (or anyone) to the ICO.

I have been having a very long on going dispute with Arrow Global about a so called debt of around £1400 for 'mail order' and it seems as though any correspondence with them is coming to an end as we keep going in circles and I will be forced to report them.

So far I have managed to stop them from taking payments from me as they cannot produce a CCA (coming up to two years ago now)

Requested a SARs from them, they couldn't produce anything on me apart from an unsigned CCA, and a load of template letters without my name, address and the amount of the debt etc. (This was quite comical, as in the beginning they insisted they sent me a default letter but cannot produce such a letter and I know I never received one)

Their last letter looked quite promising as they wanted to finally look into it all properly but needed proof of my new address. I have since sent them proof and told them they have 14 days to comply (with removing the default) or I will be reporting them to the relevant authorities and pursuing any money paid to them and compensation.


What I really want to know is -

- Will the FSO back me on this if Arrow have no documents on me at all?

- Can a default even be LEGALLY issued against me if they have no signed CCA? (seems as though it can)

- Do CRA's do any checks to prove the default is valid before placing it on someones file?

- How long is the current FSO waiting list before someone looks into it?

- Can I even claim any money paid to them back? as they harassed me over a debt that isn't even legal, and can I claim compensation for a wrongful default?


Thanks for any replies :-)

[FlamingParrot]

Re: ARROW GLOBAL FSO & ICO Quite a Few Questions

Hi and welcome to LB!

Will the FSO back me on this if Arrow have no documents on me at all?

No, they don't get involved in unenforceability issues.

Can a default even be LEGALLY issued against me if they have no signed CCA? (seems as though it can)

Yes they can, on McGuffick v RBS it was established that reporting to the CRAs/recording a default does not constitute enforcement:

The meaning of enforcement

The Act does not define what constitutes "enforcement" and therefore does not define what actions a creditor may not undertake during a period when the agreement is unenforceable. The debtor argued that any coercive action to compel or secure performance of the removed obligation or liability of the debtor to make repayment amounted to "enforcement" including any reporting to CRAs.
Mr Justice Flaux concluded that not only did reporting to the various CRAs not amount to enforcement, but that a number of other activities did not constitute enforcement either, such as:

• reporting to CRAs without also telling them that the agreement is currently unenforceable
• disseminating or threatening to disseminate the debtor's personal data in respect of the agreement to any third party
• demanding payment from the debtor
• issuing a default notice to the debtor
• threatening legal action
• instructing a third party to demand payment or otherwise to seek to procure payment
• bringing proceedings.

Do CRA's do any checks to prove the default is valid before placing it on someones file?

No, they rely on information supplied by creditors.

How long is the current FSO waiting list before someone looks into it?

Not an easy question to answer but they don't get involved in issues regarding enforceability or defaults. If the default had been recorded in error, then you'd go to the ICO not the FOS.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: ARROW GLOBAL FSO & ICO Quite a Few Questions

Can I even claim any money paid to them back? as they harassed me over a debt that isn't even legal, and can I claim compensation for a wrongful default?

Sadly no, you can't. As per the same case above, demanding payment, instructing a third party to do so or even bringing proceedings does not amount to enforcement, so they can do all that without an enforceable agreement. There is a difference between the debt not being 'legal' and being unenforceable. Lack of a signed agreement or a compliant CCA means they cannot enforce it in court (get a CCJ against you) :incourt: but they can do everything else to try and get you to pay. Of course since they can't *make* you pay by obtaining judgment and enforcing it, you are also free not to pay until such time it becomes statute barred. :clock:

The meaning of enforcement

The Act does not define what constitutes "enforcement" and therefore does not define what actions a creditor may not undertake during a period when the agreement is unenforceable. The debtor argued that any coercive action to compel or secure performance of the removed obligation or liability of the debtor to make repayment amounted to "enforcement" including any reporting to CRAs.
Mr Justice Flaux concluded that not only did reporting to the various CRAs not amount to enforcement, but that a number of other activities did not constitute enforcement either, such as:

• reporting to CRAs without also telling them that the agreement is currently unenforceable
• disseminating or threatening to disseminate the debtor's personal data in respect of the agreement to any third party
• demanding payment from the debtor
• issuing a default notice to the debtor
• threatening legal action
  
• instructing a third party to demand payment or otherwise to seek to procure payment
  
• bringing proceedings.

Thanks for any replies :-)

Probably not the replies you were looking forward to, but at least it looks like the debt is unenforceable and you haven't paid for a few years, the SBd clock is ticking away :clock: and your credit file will be clean once more 6 years after the default was recorded so all is not lost! :thumb:

[T18]

Re: ARROW GLOBAL FSO & ICO Quite a Few Questions

Thanks for the replies.

I feared I was going to be given that link :-/

i dont know how it can be fair that a company who literally have nothing on apart from their word can destroy someone's credit file.

problem I have now is my credit rating is "good" according to credit expert and my bank, with no late payments in 3 years, but this default is not allowing me to obtain a mortgage. Being 23 with a good job I was hoping to buy my first house instead of wasting money on rent, this now doesn't look possible for a good 3-4 years.

Is it worth trying to do a deal with arrow for them to remove it completely? I have already paid over £1000 to them ( the debt was for £1400 but they put charges on top so they say I still owe £950)

Il keep just sending them letters in the hope it annoys them into removing it lol

[FlamingParrot]

Re: ARROW GLOBAL FSO & ICO Quite a Few Questions

i dont know how it can be fair that a company who literally have nothing on apart from their word can destroy someone's credit file.

Credit reporting is not governed by law as such, they are just guidance notes which do not have the force of law. However, from what you say below, you did have this account, i.e. they are not referring to an account you never had, are they? Most of those catalogue companies didn't require an agreement to be signed before sending out the goods, but I assume you did buy (and receive) goods from them.

Your credit file is not destroyed forever, just for 6 years, and it looks like you're already halfway! :grin:

problem I have now is my credit rating is "good" according to credit expert and my bank, with no late payments in 3 years, but this default is not allowing me to obtain a mortgage. Being 23 with a good job I was hoping to buy my first house instead of wasting money on rent, this now doesn't look possible for a good 3-4 years.

What's the big rush? You're only 23, in 3-4 years you could save up to put down a bigger deposit, allowing you to either buy a bigger/better property, or to get a better mortgage deal.

Wasting money on rent can also be a bit of a myth. When you buy a property, most of your monthly payments go towards interest, at least in the beginning. There is also often service charges and insurance premiums to pay every month. None of these payments go towards the actual cost of the property. Nowadays it can be cheaper to rent a property than to make the mortgage payments on the same property, unless you put down a sizable deposit.

As an example, if you buy a property for £150k with a mortgage for £135k at 5% (a realistic rate for the remainder of the mortgage, as opposed to today's low rates which won't stay at that level forever), you'd be paying £789.20 a month, out of which £562.50 is interest: http://www.mortgages-online.co.uk/Mo...=0&inflation=0 If it's a flat, you'll probably be looking at service charges which can be up to £100/month as well as compulsory insurance, adding up to £650-£700 a month not going towards the principal (the money you actually borrowed to buy the property). You may well be able to rent the same property for roughly the same amount, so you are not wasting as much on rent as you think.

Is it worth trying to do a deal with arrow for them to remove it completely? I have already paid over £1000 to them ( the debt was for £1400 but they put charges on top so they say I still owe £950)

Il keep just sending them letters in the hope it annoys them into removing it lol

There are a couple of issues with this:

1. You may find that, even if you pay the outstanding amount, the default is marked as 'satisfied' but does not disappear, which means you'd have wasted money that could have gone towards your deposit.
2. If you haven't made payments for a couple of years, you will be resetting the SBd clock by making any offers of repayment. :clock:

You may want to consider all the above before making an informed decision. :decision:

[Amethyst]

Re: ARROW GLOBAL FSO & ICO Quite a Few Questions

Filing defaults with credit reference agencies

Guidance for lenders and others who provide credit about when and how to file information about defaults with the credit reference agencies to ensure credit reference agencies are able to hold fair and accurate records about the financial standing of those individuals.
Filing defaults with credit reference agencies (pdf)
Credit agreements and data sharing

The ICO’s view on whether credit reference agencies can process information after a credit agreement has ended.
Credit agreements - data sharing (pdf)


uploaded first doc as their link isn't working.