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Longish Story

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  • Longish Story

    Hi all, I'm a newbie but would welcome advice on the following saga (apologies for length!)

    Around the middle of 2009 I had a load of debt that had built up following my divorce a few years earlier. At the time I owned a house which was adjacent to some ex-allottment land. I did a deal with a property developer to buy my house and the land for a sum that would enable me to pay off my debts and leave with a few quid to start over. All this took time to go through planning etc, so I wrote to my creditors and arranged for them to freeze interest or suspend payments until the deal was done. Eventually it all worked out, my house was demolished and new properties built - I paid off my debts (some creditors settled for less) and moved into a one bedroom rented flat hoping to rebuild my life and my credit history. In November 2009 I had a letter from Phillips Debt Collection agency about a debt of £9400. I asked for proof that the debt was mine and heard nothing, therefore I ignored it and carried on with my life.

    Fast forward to 2011 and I get a letter out of the blue from Mackenzie Hall asking me to pay a debt of £9300 odd to Lowell Sav. I had no knowledge of such a debt and so wrote and asked for them to substantiate the debt via a CCA - I heard nothing more from them.

    During June/July 2012 I received three letters from Debt Managers Ltd about the same debt. This time I decided to check my credit file with Experian. It appears that Lowell Portfolio I have a default on my file with a default date of September 2008 for £9391.

    I wrote to both Lowell Portfolio I and Debt Managers Ltd asking them to substantiate the debt within 12 working days (as per advice read on Moneysaving expert website). I enclosed copies of the earlier letters I wrote to Phillips and Mackenzie Hall. This past Friday I received letters from both these companies effectively stalling for time - they both say they need to get the original CCA from the original credit company.

    On Saturday morning I received another letter from Lowell Portfolio I. This letter informs me that they are querying the debt with Shop Direct (whom I have never heard of or dealt with). They also say they enclose a copy of a Letter of Assignment - but there was no copy enclosed. The 12 day deadline for them to provide me with a CCA expires this coming Thursday.

    My questions are;
    1) Do I ignore their stalling letter and stick to the deadline date before contacting them?
    2) Do I write to them immediately and give them more time (if so, how much time)?
    3) What are my next steps and are there any form letters I can plagiarise?

    My aim in all this is simply to clear my credit records so that at some point I may be able to see a future for myself.

    Apologies for the length of this tale but some advice would be appreciated.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Longish story...

    Hi Crusty and welcome to Legal Beagles.

    As you probably already know, the onus is on the creditor and their threat monkeys to prove that a lawful debt exists, that it is enforceable in law, that the creditor/DCA has a right in law to enforce it and that you are legally-liable for the debt. Failure to prove a person is legally-liable for a debt can bring the other elements into doubt. It can also put a creditor and/or DCA in breach of their OFT CCA Licence.

    I would not provide any extension of time, other than as provided or required by law. A sample letter is below -

    Lowells
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Dear Sirs,

    Re.: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    I refer to your letter dated [date].

    I confirm I have never had any dealings with Shop Direct and, accordingly, neither accept or acknowledge any alleged debt your company claims exists.

    Unless your company can show lawful reason for requesting an extension of time, no extension will be granted beyond Thursday 16 August 2012.

    Your company is reminded of its obligations under OFT Debt Collection Guidelines and the terms and conditions of its licences under the Consumer Credit Act 1974-2006.

    Yours faithfully,

    Crusty

    Try that and see what Lowells send back. They'll probably howl and bitch at not being given an extension of time, but they know the rules and are not exempt from compliance with them.
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Longish story...

      Wow - speedy reply, many, many thanks. I will send the letter today (recorded of course) but as I doubt I will get a reply by Thursday, I presume I should continue with my next planned step which is to write to them pointing out their failure to comply and give them 30 days (?) to remove the default from my file? I would appreciate the legal wording if possible - my research on the net has thrown up many sample letters but they seem to be a bit vague on the legality of my actions.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Longish story...

        Originally posted by Crusty View Post
        Wow - speedy reply, many, many thanks. I will send the letter today (recorded of course) but as I doubt I will get a reply by Thursday, I presume I should continue with my next planned step which is to write to them pointing out their failure to comply and give them 30 days (?) to remove the default from my file? I would appreciate the legal wording if possible - my research on the net has thrown up many sample letters but they seem to be a bit vague on the legality of my actions.
        Update: I sent the letter outlined above and I have heard nothing and it is now two days beyond the deadline. Can anyone out there give me some guidance as to the letter I need to send to Lowells telling the to remove the default from my file? I want to be sure I've got the legal stuff right. Many thanks in advance

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Longish story...

          Don't panic, Crusty. You have to allow time for the letter to reach Lowells. Allow until Wednesday of this coming week for Lowells to respond. This allows two days for your letter to reach them and two days for their response to reach you, plus the 14 days from date of receipt for them to respond.
          Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Longish story...

            Originally posted by bluebottle View Post
            Don't panic, Crusty. You have to allow time for the letter to reach Lowells. Allow until Wednesday of this coming week for Lowells to respond. This allows two days for your letter to reach them and two days for their response to reach you, plus the 14 days from date of receipt for them to respond.
            My letter referred to above was received by Lowells on the 14th August. I have now received a reply dated 16th August (the deadline for their response to my request for a CCA) which says;

            "We have been in touch with SAV Credit about the copy of your credit agreement. They have let us know they are trying to retrieve it from their archive. As soon as we have it we will send it to you.
            What will happen next
            In the event we cannot obtain a copy of the CCA we will write to you again and inform you of this. Once we have seen your credit agreement, we will ask you to pay your outstanding balance in full"


            What is my next step?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Longish story...

              You are not interested in a copy only the original agreement, contact them and explain this and come let us know what they say. i will advise further on removing the negative file on your credit reference.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Longish story...

                Read it carefully again what they are saying.

                "We have been in touch with SAV Credit about the copy of your credit agreement. They have let us know they are trying to retrieve it from their archive. As soon as we have it we will send it to you.
                What will happen next
                In the event we cannot obtain a copy of the CCA we will write to you again and inform you of this. Once we have seen your credit agreement, we will ask you to pay your outstanding balance in full"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Longish story...

                  They must provide you with a copy of the agreement. The rule is "No agreement, no money." They are also in breach of OFT Debt Collection Guidelines. I'm attaching the Guidelines to this post. Also, I would advise you to make a formal complaint against Lowells to OFT Credit Fitness Team at enquiries@oft.gsi.gov.uk and insert CREDIT FITNESS in the subject box. Give a clear and concise resume of your complaint and include the following details in the complaint -

                  Company Name: Lowell Financial
                  Credit Licence No.: 0528607

                  Make sure you list all and any breaches of the Guidelines in your complaint. That way, OFT Credit Fitness Team can see what scrotes Lowells are.
                  Attached Files
                  Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Longish story...

                    The original agreement you need not a copy, the original has been sold

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Longish story...

                      Please refer to Carey Vs HSBC (http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2009/3417.html) where it was established that a RECONSTITUTED COPY of the agreement is acceptable to comply with the requirements of a CCA request.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Longish story...

                        Yes, they are not obliged to supply the original agreement, but may be required to produce it as proof of the existence of the debt, if they pursue it in court. Unfortunately, non-compliance with a CCA s.77-79 request is NOT in itself proof that there is no agreement, nor that the contract - or debt - is unenforceable.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Longish story...

                          The Shop Direct Group owned by the multi-billionaire Barclay Brothers includes:- Littlewoods, G.U.S., Empire Stores/La Redoubte, Homebase & Argos. Littlewoods runs the in-house credit/finance company in Bootle.

                          Have you purchased any goods (incl. catalogue purchases) from any of these companies?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Longish story...

                            Dear Sir/Madam,

                            Your Ref: xxxxxxx

                            This is a formal request under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008.


                            I require your organisation to provide written confirmation that states clearly whether you currently hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement, or whether you do not hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement pertaining to myself.


                            For the avoidance of doubt, an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement is just that; not an application for credit and not a reconstructed or microfiched document from other sources.


                            Please note that until such times as a legally enforceable, original Consumer Credit Agreement can be produced and a copy sent to me by return, then this letter is not an acknowledgement of debt.


                            Please also note that failure to provide a direct answer to this request will be brought before the court, should you decide to defy the content of this letter and instruct solicitors to pursue enforcement action regardless.


                            Yours faithfully,






                            V1.a (Someone with a solicitor on board)


                            Quote:
                            Dear Sir/Madam,

                            Your Ref: xxxxxxx

                            This is a formal request under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008.


                            I require your organisation to provide written confirmation that states clearly whether you currently hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement, or whether you do not hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement pertaining to myself.


                            For the avoidance of doubt, an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement is just that; not an application for credit and not a reconstructed or microfiched document from other sources.
                            Please note that until such time as a legally enforceable original Consumer Credit Agreement can be produced and a copy sent to me by return, then this letter is not an acknowledgement of debt.

                            In the event of you failing to comply with these instructions, our solicitors are instructed to make formal complaints to all relevant regulatory and judicial authorities. Your direct contact with me and hence your clients’ instructions to you are serious infringements of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations and will be reported as such.

                            Therefore in compliance with these aforementioned regulations you are to declare to my solicitors within the next seven days (7 days) whether you or your clients actually hold a fully compliant, fully enforceable original document as is required under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

                            Further, I have instructed our solicitors to make application to the courts for an injunction at your cost should you make that necessary.

                            Yours faithfully,

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Longish story...

                              No need to go in all guns blazing as yet as they have already said they have requested the paperwork from the OC.
                              Lave them to it and see what happens next.

                              In my own case, a couple of weeks later I received a letter saying that the OC cannot find the agreement and as such Lowell have returned the account to them and closed it on their systems.
                              That was several years ago now...

                              Comment

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