Section 99 termination turned Invalid Default Notice

[aldo1029]

Hi Folks,

Bit of an interesting one and looking for some advice on best way to tackle it.

I had a car loan with WFS which was voluntarily terminated under section 99 of the CCA. Half the agreement was paid and the car was collected by agent of WFS. All good....until they started chasing me for "account arrears" of about £600, which there were none.

There was a default notice raised which is invalid - showing three different amounts to "clear" the default (£300, £600 and £1300 within same notice) and not having prescribed wording for date to settle default, using "within x days" and not an actual date.

I've also had three DCA's involved now, one of which offered a one time "vastly reduced amount to settle" option. Each of which I've told the account is being disputed.

An account statement from WFS shows payments to account which do not tally with what was actually paid to them, additional charges and letter fees, capitalisation fees (some £100 at a time) and interestingly one of the last charges was entitled "Option to Purchase Fee" of £100... but I didn't purchase the car, it was handed back!

WFS are adament they are in the right, DCA's aren't interested and CRA's are reporting incorrect information - for the only item on my credit files. I have no other entries at all across all CRA's.

Any suggestions on how best to tackle this situation appreciated.

Thanks
Allan

[CleverClogs]

Re: Section 99 termination turned Invalid Default Notice

Refer them to the retort in the case of Arkell v Pressdram - link - as the fees that WFS would like to add do not appear in the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and probably are not specified in the loan agreement.

[Guest]

Re: Section 99 termination turned Invalid Default Notice

HI
I did a VT on a car in 2007, they gave me all sorts of trouble , they just do not like people who do this.
LIke you i was completely upto date, the car was even MOTd/taxed and service upto date, not a mark on it, yet they tried to bill me for work "nessessary to bring it ujp to saleable quality".

I found the ony effective method of dealing with them is to go on the offensive. deal only with the orriginal supplier and make them justify any charges, threaten with legal action if they continue to harrass and also threaten to claim for damages if any entry has been put on your CRA file.

Peter

[teaboy2]

Re: Section 99 termination turned Invalid Default Notice

As peter said in regards to claiming for damages for any default entered on your credit file, what he means is, that entering a default on your credit file and recording inaccurate payment history on your credit file is libellous. As such you can sue the creditor or the company responsible for registering the default and recording inaccurate data for liable. Though you will have to show that the inaccurate recording of data and the wrongful registering of a default on your file caused you finanical prejudice e.g. prevented you from gaining credit that you would have otherwise been able to gain.

Basically after a section 99 termination the agreement ceases to exists therefore they can not lawfully issue a default or enact provision under said agreement such as issue default notices under section 81 as the agreement no longer exists.

[aldo1029]

Re: Section 99 termination turned Invalid Default Notice

Thanks for the replies guys. Can I just clarify some points...

1. When a section 99 termination is presented to WFS, does the agreement cease once they are in receipt of the letter from me, or is there something that needs to occur following this to make it official?

2. Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as amended - do all charges that *may* be applied need to be listed with monetary values, or can they get away with just putting a vague clause in the agreement to say they are able to charge whatever? The copy of the agreement I have doesn't show anything obvious. (But I might double check now)

3. On the misinformation on my credit file, do I need to give a pre-defined period to remove this or face legal action, or can I just say you have 7 days to sort it and here are the reasons why? What should be my next course of action if they said bugger off?

4. If I wanted to make more noise, which regulatory/ombudsmen type bodies are best to deal with? I know raising a case with the FSO carries a standard fee of £500 payable by the party the complaint is made against (WFS in this case) regardless of who is in the wrong, so when considering the amount being claimed is £600ish, it doesn't seem like business sense for them to follow through.

5. Could I/should I raise a small claims court case against WFS stating the issues with charges, invalid DN, passing to DCA whilst in dispute...or should I stay away from this - if so why?

6. I'm presently looking at mortgages, but the invalid DN is causing issues already - how do I quantify the level of damages to claim for, if indeed I decide to go down this route. I'm not fussed about the money, I just want a clean file - but if things aren't resolved I'd like to know what would constitute a fair value for my inconvienience.

Thanks
Allan

[Guest]

Re: Section 99 termination turned Invalid Default Notice

Thanks for the replies guys. Can I just clarify some points...

1. When a section 99 termination is presented to WFS, does the agreement cease once they are in receipt of the letter from me, or is there something that needs to occur following this to make it official?

The debtor terminates the contract, so you say when it is terminated. If the legality of the termination is questioned all that the court will look at is if the termination gave adequate notice. Obviously the termination will have to coincide with the return of the vehicle.

2. Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as amended - do all charges that *may* be applied need to be listed with monetary values, or can they get away with just putting a vague clause in the agreement to say they are able to charge whatever? The copy of the agreement I have doesn't show anything obvious. (But I might double check now)


Once the vehicle is terminated it is no longer under an agreement so any terms on it are no longer valid.The section enforces this by the way it is worded
Section 100
(1) Where a regulated hire-purchase or regulated conditional sale agreement is terminated under section 99 the debtor shall be liable, unless the agreement provides for a smaller payment, or does not provide for any payment, to pay to the creditor the amount (if any) by which one-half of the total price exceeds the aggregate of the sums paid and the sums due in respect of the total price immediately before the termination.



3. On the misinformation on my credit file, do I need to give a pre-defined period to remove this or face legal action, or can I just say you have 7 days to sort it and here are the reasons why? What should be my next course of action if they said bugger off?


You have to give them chance to remove the entry from your credit file send them a registered letter address it to the Data controller and tell them why you think the marker is incorrect give them 14 days to remove it or you will take further action.

Who you complain to depends on their response, you can call the CRA and ask them to mark your file in dispute whilst this is being settled.

4. If I wanted to make more noise, which regulatory/ombudsmen type bodies are best to deal with? I know raising a case with the FSO carries a standard fee of £500 payable by the party the complaint is made against (WFS in this case) regardless of who is in the wrong, so when considering the amount being claimed is £600ish, it doesn't seem like business sense for them to follow through.

5. Could I/should I raise a small claims court case against WFS stating the issues with charges, invalid DN, passing to DCA whilst in dispute...or should I stay away from this - if so why?

If you recieved a DN and the remedy period had passed you would not be able to VT.

6. I'm presently looking at mortgages, but the invalid DN is causing issues already - how do I quantify the level of damages to claim for, if indeed I decide to go down this route. I'm not fussed about the money, I just want a clean file - but if things aren't resolved I'd like to know what would constitute a fair value for my inconvienience.

Thanks
Allan

See above


Damages are a whole new ball game and best approached if and when it is appropriate.

Peter

[aldo1029]

Re: Section 99 termination turned Invalid Default Notice

Thanks Peter.

To clarify further, If WFS arranged for collection of car, then can I'm assume they have agreed to termination, otherwise why collect the car?

[labman]

Re: Section 99 termination turned Invalid Default Notice

If they do collect it, only let them do so on condition that no further paperwork needs signing. They like to list long lists of faults, most of which were there when you purchased the vehicle and try and charge a fortune for remedying these faults. Much better to take it back and hand over the keys.

[Guest]

Re: Section 99 termination turned Invalid Default Notice

HI
Yes labman that is a good point. I did a report on my VT on CAG you may be able to find it, i cant for some reason my account has been cancelled?

I remember when i returned my car i gave the dealer a copy of a the MOT ceritdicate, repear invoices, even had a report done by the AA, he ripped al the paperwork up in front of me, nice man.

He then went around the car and drew rings round immaginary dinks in the bodywork in yellow chalk.
I photographed him doing this on my camera phone which didnt help his mood.

He then tried to make me sign an acknowledgement of the faults he had pointed out.
As Labman says dont. i didnt.

A couple of weeks later i got a bill for about two grand, i didn't pay it of course and eventually i recived a letter from them to say that nothing was due, but i had to stick to my guns.

They will say that you cannot VT if you have arrears on your account, this is rubbish, you still owe the money of course but as long as they have not sent you a default notice and the remedy period has passed you can VT.

Peter

[aldo1029]

Re: Section 99 termination turned Invalid Default Notice

Hi folks, sorry for delay in getting back been a busy few weeks with work.

Ok... time to ramp things up and to bring you an update on stuff.

I've basically raised a query through Equifax about wrong info on my file as I was getting nowhere with WFS themselves, and have now had a response from WFS Complaints saying this has been raised with them and they will have a response in 8 weeks time. Equifax had put a dispute notice on my file, but have now told me this will be removed due to feedback from WFS saying its being handled as a complaint. In the meantime I'm still having to deal with not being able to raise credit for home improvements which is going to cause me serious grief.

Is there anything I can do with forcing CRA's to remove default based on fact it was clearly raised against a terminated account and that it is also invalid on the wording etc, and would it be worthwhile raising a small claims court action even while it's being dealt with as a complaint?

Is there any legal requirement for CRA to verify information given to them before placing it on my file, if so what Acts cover this and who can I complain to for lack of checks being carried out by CRA on info provided?

Cheers
A.