Car Licence revoked after seizure April 4th 2015 but still having to pay PCP car

[Scotty1974]

Hit there I took a Mercedes out on August 2014 on 4 year lease on the 4th of April 2015 I took a bad seizure and had my licence revoked I've still been paying the PCP car agreement but still have no sign of when I will get my licence back I'm partially disabled but I'm struggling to keep up the payments for the PCP car I can't drive as my licence is still revoked I need to go for tests before the DVLA will let me drive again I've tried explaining my situation to Mercedes but there not interested as long as they get there money every month I'm in a bad situation that I don't see a way of getting out of as Mercedes aren't interested,this is putting a terrible strain on me and my family I don't know who to turn to or ask about the situation that I am in if anybody who reads this can help in any way possible it would be so much appreciated I know that the car can be VT but I'm a good bit away from being able to do that and I don't want to be black listed if I just hand the car back Mercedes have asked me to try and sell the car but I'm partially disabled and wouldn't know where to start if anyone can help it would be so much appreciated,thanks so much if you read this and even better if you can come up with an idea that I haven't thought about but as of now this is mentally and physically draining on me and my family with kindest regards Scott

[R0b]

Re: Car Licence revoked after seizure April 4th 2015 but still having to pay PCP car

If you can post up a copy of the agreement you signed with mercedes I can take a look at it for you.

You can send an email to admin@legalbeagles.info and [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] can post it up for you.

[Scotty1974]

Re: Car Licence revoked after seizure April 4th 2015 but still having to pay PCP car

Thanks so mush for your time Rob it's really appreciated I've got it saved in an archive email if possible would I be able to email it to you

[Amethyst]

Re: Car Licence revoked after seizure April 4th 2015 but still having to pay PCP car

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[Amethyst]

Re: Car Licence revoked after seizure April 4th 2015 but still having to pay PCP car

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[R0b]

Re: Car Licence revoked after seizure April 4th 2015 but still having to pay PCP car

Hi @Scotty1974,

I've taken a look at the agreement and on initial view it would seem that you have no relief in your situation. There is no "force majeure" clause which means that in certain circumstances you may be excused for performing the contract under the circumstances described as a force majeure e.g. an act of god destroys your vehicle.

At this point I would usually explain that you have 2 options, you can either surrender the vehicle which means Mercedes can claim the difference between the vehicle sold and what is left owed under the contract. Alternatively, you can VT the agreement which means you are owed only half the amount payable under the agreement. The VT option usually always means you owe less money than if you surrendered the vehicle because when surrendering they can include the interest as well as the amount of credit for the vehicle.

If you VT then the amount owed would become a debt rather than a breach of contract and so unless you come to an agreement with Mercedes to pay back the amount in instalments without the need for court then you could be liable for a CCJ against you which lasts for 6 years on your record and could prevent you from obtaining future credit - that being said you could potentially go through the Financial Ombudsman route if Mercedes fail to take into account your circumstances and FCA rules they need to adhere to. The Ombudsman could require Mercedes to agree to monthly instalments on the basis that you pay on time otherwise they could take you to court and pursue you for the remainder in full, resulting in a CCJ. Taking you to court where you are just because they can without considering your circumstances may also be a factor when the judge considers any sum of money owed as there would be no real benefit of Mercedes taking you to court if you can't pay up. It may also amount to an abuse of process which could result in their claim being dismissed.


Now despite the above, here's some food for thought which may be a potential argument in your favour. As there is no force majeure clause within the agreement, you may be able to rely on the doctrine of frustration. The general rule of frustration is that if the performance of the contract becomes more difficult or impossible, then the contract can be deemed frustrated and the parties are relieved of their obligations and no longer bound. Note that because the contract becomes more expensive does not frustrate the contract.

For a frustrating event to take place it must be an unforeseen event that occurs after the contract has been performed which was not the fault of either party and makes the contract impossible to perform or illegal to perform, or makes the contract radically different to what was agreed between the parties.

You will see at clause 4.1 that it says "you will insure the vehicle with a reputable insurer for the period of the hire at full value (comprehensive) ... " and failing to insure the vehicle for the period of the hire will amount to a breach of contract (clause 9) and allow Mercedes to terminate the agreement. Technically, you are in breach of the agreement as you will have no valid insurance now due to no licence.

And there lies your argument for frustration. You've signed the agreement and due to unforeseen circumstances you have had a seizure resulting in your driving licence being revoked. Because you require the car to be insured at all times during the period of the lease, you cannot have a valid insurance policy without a valid driving licence. Therefore it is impossible for you to perform the contract, and it is also illegal to drive the vehicle without valid insurance, and as a result the agreement has become frustrated because it is impossible for you to perform your obligations without a driving licence.

Will this argument work against Mercedes? Absolutely no idea as this is the first type of scenario I've come across in relation to a hire purchase agreement where it is not possible to perform the agreement, although it does sound like you have good grounds here to argue frustration and I would be interested to hear what Mercedes have to say about performing the agreement without a valid driving licence/insurance. It may even come to the point where Mercedes take it all the way to court although I would imagine their lawyers have some sense not to take such a big risk where there is a possibility of you successfully defending the case.

I think what you should now do is start to document everything and keep it all in writing, anything discussed verbally is a lot harder to prove than it is where there is written evidence. If you must discuss verbally then make sure you document it by following it up with a letter confirming what was said.

I would suggest you start off by raising a complaint, you've indicated that your licence has been revoked, cannot perform the agreement yet Mercedes insist on you being bound by the agreement. They have 8 weeks to attempt to resolve your complaint before you can officially raise a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman.

Bear in mind Mercedes also have a clause in 13.9 which states that in the event of a dispute, you can refer the matter to mediation in accordance with Financing and Lasing Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration Scheme (doing this is not binding) which might be worthwhile before you contact the Ombudsman and see if it can be resolved.

You could also send a letter to the head of complaints prior to the ombudsman/mediation and see if that helps to resolve your issue.

[Scotty1974]

Re: Car Licence revoked after seizure April 4th 2015 but still having to pay PCP car

Thanks so much for looking into this in as much detail as you possibly can I can't thank you enough.if I'm misunderstood please forgive me but from what I've taken out of what you have said is to complain to a manager at Mercedes and plead my case with him,and explain that I'm going to refer the matter to mediation in accordance with the Financing & Lacing Conciliation,Mediation & Arbitration Scheme before getting in contact with the ombudsman/mediation.please correct me if I'm wrong.just a little about myself Rob in August 2008 I was at knock hill racing my motorcycle it was a Honda Fireblade 954 racing a friend my motorcycle gearbox locked up I was doing 145mph plus I had all the protective gear on but coming of at that speed I was lucky to survive this was August 14 2008 my son was born a week later on the 21st of August 2008 what should have been the happiest time in my life turned into a nightmare I was in hospital for 6 months both my ankles were shattered had a bad break in my right shoulder and right wrist I can't forgive myself for what I put my family through my brain had such a shake I didn't know who I was for about 2 months as I had a swelling on my brain.but I really appreciate what you've had to do to help me out of this bad situation and feel indebted to you for taking the time for really trying to help when you receive this if there's anything I'm doing wrong could you please advise please with kindest regards Scott.thanks so much lie wait til you have received this email just to give it a check over and you can let me know what you think.thanks so much

[R0b]

Re: Car Licence revoked after seizure April 4th 2015 but still having to pay PCP car

Hi Scotty,

Sorry to hear about your problems and what you have had to go through. I think you should first start off by invoking their complaints procedure and outline in your letter something along the lines of the following:

1. You have already informed Mercedes that your licence has been revoked and can no longer conform to the agreement in particular holding insurance for the period of the lease.
2. As a result, the contract is "frustrated" because it has become impossible for you to comply with the terms and the agreement is now radically different than what had been agreed to at the time through no fault of your own. Therefore both parties are released from their obligations.
3. You do not agree to any monies being taken by Mercedes from the date of the letter, if they do attempt to do so you reserve the right to claim back any sums
4. If they do not uphold your complaint then you require a final decision from them confirming this.
5. You would then like to refer the matter to the FLA Scheme subject to Mercedes paying all costs in relation to the mediation in accordance with clause 13.9 (FLA website says both parties bear their own costs but you would like Mercedes to do so and have it in writing), however you also reserve the right to complain to the Financial Ombudsman if there is no mediation agreement.

See what they come back with and say to that, I would expect them to say tough luck you still must pay and this is where you should refer the matter to the FLA provided they pay all fees. If not complain to the Ombudsman and if you accept any Ombudsman decision it becomes binding for both parties.

If you need help with the letter feel free to post up a draft and we can add any comments.

The key is to keep it concise and not too long

[Openlaw15]

Re: Car Licence revoked after seizure April 4th 2015 but still having to pay PCP car

Hit there I took a Mercedes out on August 2014 on 4 year lease on the 4th of April 2015 I took a bad seizure and had my licence revoked I've still been paying the PCP car agreement but still have no sign of when I will get my licence back I'm partially disabled but I'm struggling to keep up the payments for the PCP car I can't drive as my licence is still revoked I need to go for tests before the DVLA will let me drive again I've tried explaining my situation to Mercedes but there not interested as long as they get there money every month I'm in a bad situation that I don't see a way of getting out of as Mercedes aren't interested,this is putting a terrible strain on me and my family I don't know who to turn to or ask about the situation that I am in if anybody who reads this can help in any way possible it would be so much appreciated I know that the car can be VT but I'm a good bit away from being able to do that and I don't want to be black listed if I just hand the car back Mercedes have asked me to try and sell the car but I'm partially disabled and wouldn't know where to start if anyone can help it would be so much appreciated,thanks so much if you read this and even better if you can come up with an idea that I haven't thought about but as of now this is mentally and physically draining on me and my family with kindest regards Scott

Update:

It seems likely that a seizure is frustrating event as it is brain issue ie more likely to be argued to be (but in your case may not be, ie still could drive some point in the future, possibly) permanent medical condition, and contractual leases can brought to end for frustrating events: Brown J. & Pawlowski, M. (2009): Contractual Termination of Leases, journal. You will need to prove your medical condition, preferably based on the medical expert's report. You can claim back any money you paid out in advance to Mercedes too under the Law Reform (Frustrated Contracts) Act 1943.. Advance payments or benefits can be claimed too: Gamerco SA (1995).

Scott, you could argue in your circumstances the contract has been 'frustrated' ie no longer workable, so it must come to an end. Frustration is a legal contractual defence to bring the contract to an end, based on precedent cases from the early 1900s. Nice thinking, Rob, I was thinking of this remedy before I saw your post. Scott, you should ask for any advanced payments you made after the date of the revocation of your driving licence under Frustration law too. As for your revocation itself, how often have the seizures occurred or is this your first, have you had specialist advice from a relevant medical professional, probably an neurologist (brain expert)? May I ask your age too, Scott?

[Scotty1974]

Re: Car Licence revoked after seizure April 4th 2015 but still having to pay PCP car

Hi there I'm Scott I'm 41 and yes this has been my first seizure but I had a fractured skull when I was 21 and there's still something showing up when they done an MRI scan hope this helps and thanks so much for your support it's really appreciated as to confronting Mercedes I've got no idea where to start any help would be so much appreciated as in what to write to Mercedes and what to quote to them I tried writing this in a separate post so we were not writing on the same page but if you receive this I can't thank you enough for trying to help me out of this situation with kindest regards Scott.

Update:

It seems likely that a seizure is frustrating event as it is brain issue ie more likely to be argued to be (but in your case may not be, ie still could drive some point in the future, possibly) permanent medical condition, and contractual leases can brought to end for frustrating events: Brown J. & Pawlowski, M. (2009): Contractual Termination of Leases, journal. You will need to prove your medical condition, preferably based on the medical expert's report. You can claim back any money you paid out in advance to Mercedes too under the Law Reform (Frustrated Contracts) Act 1943.. Advance payments or benefits can be claimed too: Gamerco SA (1995).

Scott, you could argue in your circumstances the contract has been 'frustrated' ie no longer workable, so it must come to an end. Frustration is a legal contractual defence to bring the contract to an end, based on precedent cases from the early 1900s. Nice thinking, Rob, I was thinking of this remedy before I saw your post. Scott, you should ask for any advanced payments you made after the date of the revocation of your driving licence under Frustration law too. As for your revocation itself, how often have the seizures occurred or is this your first, have you had specialist advice from a relevant medical professional, probably an neurologist (brain expert)? May I ask your age too, Scott?

[Memememe]

Re: Car Licence revoked after seizure April 4th 2015 but still having to pay PCP car

Just wanted to say a massive thank-you.

I have found myself in a very similar situation recently
I found this thread, wrote the lease hire company a letter using the frustration of contracts argument and, after quite a few phone calls and me being very persistent, they are finally coming to collect the vehicle in 2 days.

Thank you.