HBOS/Lowell CCA reply

[Bielawa1]

Hi,

Just hoping for some clarification on a CCA response i had regarding a HBOS credit card Lowells are dealing with,

Account opened Feb 2006 , default August 2012. Stated balance approx £1400.

I know they need to send me a true copy of the original and after months of saying it doesn't exist due to its age , a one page copy has appeared.Looks real enough , but a really poor copy.They sent a recent recon page of that copy of details plus extra sections i assume to make up for the poor copy.The poor copy has APR, about payments in basic form .Its addressed correctly but only signed and dated by me nothing from them .(Which as far as i know means its unenforceable unless by a court , and they probably win on that argument alone.)

However the margins are not copied/poor quality so the charges for example and fees for transfers, cheques etc are chopped off.The 'original copy' only shows the number 5 in the margin for each charge (£25 i'm sure it was then).

They seem to have tried to re-con the original they have sent except its clearly for a modern card not what i had .It has under parties my address as being what it was 6 years after it was opened (showing a clear re-con even though i'd moved twice since then so not sure why they chose that address.) The general apr's on them are totally different and the charges on the recon part are all £12 each when i have that 5 (of £25) remaining on the poor original.


If so i'm seeing it as failed with the original which they need as pre 2007 ( incomplete prescribed terms) and the other one(s) clearly modern totally inaccurate recons with the actual original signed/dated form proving that.They state in their letter its the original and don't mention even trying a recon which i thought they had to do to not mislead.


I'm certain about £500 of the approx £1400 'balance' is made up of penalty fees/interest.So SAR in the offing too.

Does all of that look correct? I'm fairly new to this and have hopefully learnt correct things up til now.Nearly accepted the agreement but looking at it again those recons seem in panic that the original copy is poor and missing those fees.Seems ironic that one form they sent totally disproves the other they sent .

Appreciate someone confirming my novice view of it is right/wrong.

[nemesis45]

Re: HBOS/Lowell CCA reply

Good morning Welcome to LB.

This sounds like a rather poor attempt at producing a " reconstituted" agreement to satisfy the CCA
request.
All parts need to be easily legible. I'll list what a "recon" must have below.
1. Your name and address exactly as it was when the account was opened.

2. The Terms & Conditions Relevant When The Account Was Opened.

3.The Terms & Conditions Relevant When the Account Was Closed.

4. Any Other Documents mentioned in the T's & C's ( e.g. The booklet of T's & C's Often supplied when a card is issued.)

5. Any material ( Major) changes made during the life of the account.

You should also receive a " Current Statement of the Account" Not an historical one.

I doubt from what you say that the matter you have received satisfies the CCA Request.
Enough to enforce Lowell hopes so, I don't think so.

If you can please post copies of the items here it will help us to advise, please remove any personal identifiers, account numbers etc.

One we've had a look at that I would suggest writing to ( Did the Come from Mr Bartle's office) to Lowell rejecting the recon as non compliant, but that is all you need to say.

nem

[Bielawa1]

Re: HBOS/Lowell CCA reply

Hi thanks for looking into it , the Lowell financial letter states 'We enclose copy of your original credit agreement with HBOS PLC '.So i imagine the fact the recon is 6 years out with the address for starters isn't great.Am i correct that they can satisfy the CCA with an exact recon but for pre 2007 court enforcement would still need the original (legible)copy?.

The letter came from James Crabtree, Customer services manager.

I'm away from home til the end of the week so as soon as i'm back will put up some redacted copies.

Many thanks for your help

[Amethyst]

Re: HBOS/Lowell CCA reply

The 'recon' terms, might be meant to be the terms as varied ? (hence the later address and £12 charges)

If so, that still means the original agreement isn't compliant, as it doesn't have all the terms referred to in it, and is illegible.

[nemesis45]

Re: HBOS/Lowell CCA reply

[QUOTE=Bielawa1;588828]Hi thanks for looking into it , the Lowell financial letter states 'We enclose copy of your original credit agreement with HBOS PLC '.So i imagine the fact the recon is 6 years out with the address for starters isn't great.Am i correct that they can satisfy the CCA with an exact recon but for pre 2007 court enforcement would still need the original (legible)copy?.

The letter came from James Crabtree, Customer services manager.

Basically yes.

The address Must be the one you were at when the agreement was signed, if it isn't then one must
be wary of the terms and conditions attached to it.

Ok I'll watch out for the posts.

nem

[Bielawa1]

Re: HBOS/Lowell CCA reply

Hi , now able to put the CCA up and he first couple of pages of the recon.I'm thinking that maybe these are the terms at the end of the agreement except i defaulted around 5 months after i left the address on the recon so the address on there doesn't mean much.They have sent a handful of 'statement of accounts' dated last few months of 2013, a year after default.Nothing more recent.

[nemesis45]

Re: HBOS/Lowell CCA reply

Hi , now able to put the CCA up and he first couple of pages of the recon.I'm thinking that maybe these are the terms at the end of the agreement except i defaulted around 5 months after i left the address on the recon so the address on there doesn't mean much.They have sent a handful of 'statement of accounts' dated last few months of 2013, a year after default.Nothing more recent.

The date on this is 8/2/206 (signature panel) would this be right for the start date?
Is there another complete set of T's & C's?

nem

[Bielawa1]

Re: HBOS/Lowell CCA reply

Hi , thanks for giving it a look , that signed cca is all there is from when I signed up , think the account began few weeks after that in 06 can check later, everything else sent is modern , general card conditions etc but all under the address from 6 years later. Is that one cca form not enough on its own ? I know them not signing it would be walked over in court if that was all that's wrong.

[Bielawa1]

Re: HBOS/Lowell CCA reply

Hi, just updating this as Lowell back making contact on this.
I challenged Lowell that the agreement was unenforceable due to 'key information' being illegible due to their poorly copied original(The attachments above in the thread work still and are all i've received).
They replied saying they believe it is all correct and enforceable despite that being the only copy of the original they have, details were accidentally cut off on the left hand side by HBOS apparently.
I left it for around 6 months heard nothing but now getting a few letters and emails, being very nice and saying how they can help, 50% discount offers on it.
Is that them effectively accepting despite what they said they know it is unenforceable and a begging letter?.
Would be nice to have them admit it's unenforceable but as long as i'm in the right i don't mind too much.Just wanted to confirm that it wouldn't meet all criteria.

Thanks

James

[nemesis45]

Re: HBOS/Lowell CCA reply

Good morning,

Yes offering discounts is usual when the debt purchaser has nothing to back up their claim to the debt but actually admittiting it is far less usual.

nem