Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Please ?

[skylinefeb75]

Hi Guys/Gals.

I have been with Payplan for the last 3 years and all of my creditors are playing ball and have frozen all charges and interest...apart from barclays. I owe them circa £9K on a visacard I originally took out in 2000. They point blank refuse to freeze my interest and as i stand i am actually not paying anything off the o/s balance due to their ever increasing charges.

As a last ditch attempt I am looking at the potential to stop all payments to them by removing this particular debt from my payplan program and then sending them a letter asking for a copy of my signed CCA.

What do you guys think? has anyone actually managed to successfully take Barclays on from a non-enforceable CCA perspective and after the 6 years period had their debt wiped out?

Cheers

AB

[Kafka]

Re: Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Pleas

Yes people have done that but it depends on factors such as when the account was opened, as the older it is the less likely they can supply valid documents. Without the history of the account it's hard to make any comment.

If you have been paying until now then you would have to start now for the 6-year Limitation period to be any use to you.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Pleas

Hi Guys/Gals.

I have been with Payplan for the last 3 years and all of my creditors are playing ball and have frozen all charges and interest...apart from barclays. I owe them circa £9K on a visacard I originally took out in 2000. They point blank refuse to freeze my interest and as i stand i am actually not paying anything off the o/s balance due to their ever increasing charges.

As a last ditch attempt I am looking at the potential to stop all payments to them by removing this particular debt from my payplan program and then sending them a letter asking for a copy of my signed CCA.

You could start by sending the CCA request without removing the debt from your Payplan DMP to start with, then when you see what sort of paperwork they have you'll be in a better position to make an informed decision.

Two words of caution:

1. Payplan may not agree to your decision to stop payments to just one creditor, they are not exactly into unenforceability, being as they are, funded by the credit industry; :mmph: and
2. I notice you mention the word 'signed'. A signed copy of your CCA is not a strict requirement, on Carey v HSBC it was established that a reconstituted copy of your agreement was acceptable response to a CCA request as long as its honest and accurate.

Having said that, Barclays are notoriously bad at retrieving agreements and many from this time are now unavailable. :thumb:

When did you stop making contractual payments to this card?

What do you guys think? has anyone actually managed to successfully take Barclays on from a non-enforceable CCA perspective and after the 6 years period had their debt wiped out?

Debts don't get 'wiped out' as such but after six years without written acknowledgment or payments they do go statute barred which means they are no longer recoverable through the courts.

I haven't 'taken on' Barclays as such but I've got an Egg card from around 2000/2001, sold to them in 2011, which I've not paid since Jan 2010 and I've never heard a peep from Barclays despite having current accounts with them. :noidea:

I also know someone who recently appeared in court to defend a Barclaycard account that had been sold to MKDP and the judge ruled it irredeemably unenforceable under s.127(3) of the CCA due to the absence of prescribed terms at the time the card was taken out. :whoo: In many cases the terms were only sent to the cardholder with the card carrier rather than at the time of application. I don't know whether this applies to you, Barclays have bought credit cards from a number of sources such as Morgan Stanley and Egg amongst others.

It's worth a try to send the CCA request even if you don't stop payments until you know where you stand. :thumb:

[skylinefeb75]

Re: Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Pleas

Thanks Guys.

Ill pop the CCA Request letter and postal order in the post. Any pointers as to which "Standard" wording to use in the letter?

[skylinefeb75]

Re: Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Pleas

Is this wording the best to use?? :-

Your name
Your address
Your address
Your Postcode

DATE

Creditor Name
Creditor Address
Creditor Address
Creditor Postcode



Dear Sir/Madam

Re:− Account Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Please treat this letter as a formal request for you to supply a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement as is my entitlement under sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I require you to provide me with a true copy, or reconstituted copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit.

Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.


Yours faithfully,


YOUR NAME

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Pleas

Is this wording the best to use?? :-

Your name
Your address
Your address
Your Postcode

DATE

Creditor Name
Creditor Address
Creditor Address
Creditor Postcode



Dear Sir/Madam

Re:− Account Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Please treat this letter as a formal request for you to supply a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement as is my entitlement under sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I require you to provide me with a true copy, or reconstituted copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit.

Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

Yours faithfully,

YOUR NAME

The wording highlighted above is intended for DCAs/debt purchasers, if you are sending the letter directly to Barclays you can take that paragraph out, otherwise everything is fine. :thumb:

[skylinefeb75]

Re: Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Pleas

Thanks Flaming Parrot...greatly appreciated. Now possibly a silly question.....who do I get the postal order made out too.....Barclays Bank PLC??

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Pleas

Thanks Flaming Parrot...greatly appreciated. Now possibly a silly question.....who do I get the postal order made out too.....Barclays Bank PLC??

Yes that should be fine, although personally I always left my POs blank and never had any problems. As you are still making payments, there's no need to worry about this £1 fee being credited to your account and them arguing that you've made a payment that reset the clock as has often been the case. :thumb:

[skylinefeb75]

Re: Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Pleas

Thanks Flaming Parrot. So you suggest to launch the letter in with a blank PO and carry on making my monthly payments through payplan. At what stage do you think I sould pull the Barclaycard debt out of payplan and stop making payments? What is a reasonable length of time to wait from sending the letter in requesting a copy of the CCA and then stopping payment? When I do stop payment do I need to write to them stating the I believe the debt is unenforceable and thus will not be making any further payments? is there a standard template for such a letter on here?

Thanks gain guys/gals!!

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Pleas

Thanks Flaming Parrot. So you suggest to launch the letter in with a blank PO and carry on making my monthly payments through payplan. At what stage do you think I sould pull the Barclaycard debt out of payplan and stop making payments?

One you've received a response from Barclays to your request, depending on what they send you.

What is a reasonable length of time to wait from sending the letter in requesting a copy of the CCA and then stopping payment?

The law gives them 12 + 2 working days to respond to a CCA request. As they are the original creditor rather than a DCA they should be able to respond more quickly. Let's see what they say, they may reply saying they need more time or may just send an A4 sheet with your name and address on it! Yes, that's what Barclays sent to a friend of mine purporting to be an agreement! :eek2:

T
When I do stop payment do I need to write to them stating the I believe the debt is unenforceable and thus will not be making any further payments? is there a standard template for such a letter on here?

Thanks gain guys/gals!!

You'd need to write to them putting the account in dispute but the grounds for dispute can't be established yet. They could be lack of compliance with a s.78 request if there's no response after the deadline, could be that their response does not satisfy s.78 of the CCA if it's something incomplete/illegible, etc. It could also be that there was never a proper agreement to start with or that the terms were only forwarded to you with the card in which case s.127(3) would kick in. It all depends on the circumstances so we can't really use a standard template at this point.

Make sure you send the CCA request recorded delivery so you can track it on the RM service and write on the back of the PO "for payment of the statutory fee only". I also used to add "I enclose PO number___________" within the CCA request letter and write in the PO number by hand at the Post Office before sealing the envelope so they couldn't argue that they didn't respond because there was no fee included with the letter if the PO got misplaced (and this also happens). :thumb:

[skylinefeb75]

Re: Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Pleas

Thanks again...you're a superstar. Ill post back up when I get a response :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[Debt Camel]

Re: Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Pleas

They point blank refuse to freeze my interest and as i stand i am actually not paying anything off the o/s balance due to their ever increasing charges.

I know this isn't what you are asking for, but there are suggestions here http://debtcamel.co.uk/creditor-wont-freeze-interest/ on how to ask for interest to be frozen and to complain to the Financial Ombudsman if they refuse. Barclays are subscribers to the Lending Code and the fact that your other creditors have frozen interest is relevant.

I suggest you follow this route at the same time as asking for a copy of the CCA. No need to remove the debt from Payplan at this stage. You can do that later if you want.

[skylinefeb75]

Re: Barclaycard Account - Possibility of Going down the unenforceabl CCA Route? Pleas

Thanks Debt Camel.

After writing to Barclays 3 times politely requesting that they freeze their charges and interest I have now asked the Ombudsman to investigate my case. I will however be sending the CCA letter as well over the course of tomorrow. Thanks for your advise. AB