Barclaycard CCA request

[Bazza]

I received the attached from Barclaycard re my request - Is this the normal response ?

They have also enclosed a reconstructed copy of the Morgan Stanley agreement September 1999. I opened my Morgan Stanley account in 1998 and on quickly checking some old statements I notice the APR's are different. Also one of the pages attached has no relevance to other pages and looks like it's been taken from another agreement.

Is this suffice as to what they are saying ?

Thank-you

[nemesis45]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

I received the attached from Barclaycard re my request - Is this the normal response ?

They have also enclosed a reconstructed copy of the Morgan Stanley agreement September 1999. I opened my Morgan Stanley account in 1998 and on quickly checking some old statements I notice the APR's are different. Also one of the pages attached has no relevance to other pages and looks like it's been taken from another agreement.

Is this suffice as to what they are saying ?

Thank-you

Hello Bazza,

There has been no criminal penalty for no compliance with a CCA request for years, 12 + 2 Working Days is the time scale, failure to comply renders the debt unenforceable until the agreement is produced.

Unless a reconstituted agreement must have:

Your name and address relevant at the time the agreement was signed
The Creditors name and address at inception .
All the T's & C's as relevant at the inception And Closure of the account. .>> Closure would be BC ( Was a new agreement provided at the acquisition of MS account by BC.
Any material amendments made during the life of the agreement. see above.
Any other documents mentioned in the T's & C's.
Without the above the recon does not comply with a CCA request.

nem

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

I received the attached from Barclaycard re my request - Is this the normal response ?

No, you may have used an old CCA request template that mentioned it being an offence not to respond within a month, they are right to say s.78(6)(b) was repealed a long time ago and it no longer applies, even if the account is pre-2008, as this refers to the duty to provide info and not the agreement itself, i.e. it would no longer apply to any s.78 request sent after May 2008:

S. 78(6)(b) and preceding word repealed (26.5.2008) by The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (S.I. 2008/1277), regs. 30(1)(3), Sch. 2 para. 20, Sch. 4 Pt. 1 (with savings in reg. 28(2)(3))

This was the old version: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ion/78/enacted

6)If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—


(a)he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and


(b)if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

In the new version: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/78 s.78(6)(a) is still applicable though, so the account is still UE as long as they don't comply but it's not longer an offence.

They have also enclosed a reconstructed copy of the Morgan Stanley agreement September 1999. I opened my Morgan Stanley account in 1998 and on quickly checking some old statements I notice the APR's are different. Also one of the pages attached has no relevance to other pages and looks like it's been taken from another agreement.

Is this suffice as to what they are saying ?

Thank-you

They did say it was a recon and you've not posted it so it all depends on whether it's an 'honest and accurate' recon of your agreement or not. If the terms are from 1999 and you opened the account in 98 then there's no way those could have been the terms, which would explain the APRs. I think the Barclaycard that MKDP lost over in court was also a Morgan Stanley card to start with. :grin:

Out of interest, have you got the DN Barclays issued?

[Bazza]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

Hello Bazza,

There has been no criminal penalty for no compliance with a CCA request for years, 12 + 2 Working Days is the time scale, failure to comply renders the debt unenforceable until the agreement is produced.

Unless a reconstituted agreement must have:

Your name and address relevant at the time the agreement was signed
The Creditors name and address at inception .
All the T's & C's as relevant at the inception And Closure of the account. .>> Closure would be BC ( Was a new agreement provided at the acquisition of MS account by BC.
Any material amendments made during the life of the agreement. see above.
Any other documents mentioned in the T's & C's.
Without the above the recon does not comply with a CCA request.

nem

Hi Nem,

I have attached what was sent.

Name and address seem to have just been added to first page / different font ?

Cheers

Bazza

[Bazza]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

Sorry and other pages.

And I don't remember seeing any other agreements, account was opened with Morgan Stanley passed to Goldfish then Barclaycard.

I did send off a SAR last year and no agreements were ever provided.

[Bazza]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

No, you may have used an old CCA request template that mentioned it being an offence not to respond within a month, they are right to say s.78(6)(b) was repealed a long time ago and it no longer applies, even if the account is pre-2008, as this refers to the duty to provide info and not the agreement itself, i.e. it would no longer apply to any s.78 request sent after May 2008:



This was the old version: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ion/78/enacted


In the new version: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/78 s.78(6)(a) is still applicable though, so the account is still UE as long as they don't comply but it's not longer an offence.


They did say it was a recon and you've not posted it so it all depends on whether it's an 'honest and accurate' recon of your agreement or not. If the terms are from 1999 and you opened the account in 98 then there's no way those could have been the terms, which would explain the APRs. I think the Barclaycard that MKDP lost over in court was also a Morgan Stanley card to start with. :grin:

Out of interest, have you got the DN Barclays issued?

Thanks for that FlamingParrot all a bit confusing lol.

So where can I find the latest correctly worded CCA request template ?

I have just added the recon details.

I will have a look through details sent from barclays a while back and if I come across anything I will post up.

:tinysmile_twink_t2:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

Thanks for that FlamingParrot all a bit confusing lol.

Basically that line (b) of s.78 of the CCA was repealed so it's no longer an offence not to comply with a CCA request, however, it still makes the account unenforceable. :thumb:

So where can I find the latest correctly worded CCA request template ?

Here: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...y-of-Agreement. Ignore the 2007 date, the post has been edited to update it. I'd opt for the 'in-depth' version especially if the account has been sold because that version has the paragraph about them not being the creditor.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

Hi Nem,

I have attached what was sent.

Name and address seem to have just been added to first page / different font ?

Cheers

Bazza

That was exactly what they sent to the person I told you about, who WON in court against MKDP! :clap2: A front page with her name and address and that box.

The other pages don't seem to belong together, the layouts and fonts don't match. Not a very good recon me thinks.

I know it's been a long time but have you any idea how you applied for this card? I assume it wasn't online that long ago. In branch? Over the phone? Back then they often sent the T&Cs with the card carrier rather than being presented at the time of signature. That being the case it would make it UE under s.127(3) as in the case of the person who won in court.

I also had a Morgan Stanley card from around that time and TBH I haven't the faintest what happened to it, whether I paid it off or not. I think I did at some point then I started using it again and it expired 10 years ago when I was abroad so I never got a new one. Never been contacted about it, if I didn't pay it off then it would be SBd anyway. :grin: It may even be possible that lurking in the depths of my storage room there could be a MSDW application form or agreement, I'm not a hoarder as such but I'm not took keen on throwing things away. I think my MSDW card was an application sent in a mailout, I used to get a lot of those at the time.

[Bazza]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

Basically that line (b) of s.78 of the CCA was repealed so it's no longer an offence not to comply with a CCA request, however, it still makes the account unenforceable. :thumb:


Here: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...y-of-Agreement. Ignore the 2007 date, the post has been edited to update it. I'd opt for the 'in-depth' version especially if the account has been sold because that version has the paragraph about them not being the creditor.

Many thanks again for your help FlamingParrot, it is much appreciated.

Just slightly off topic but in relation to CCA agreement - If an OC or DCA has failed to provide any form of annual statements but there is an agreed repayment plan on the account and interest frozen would payments made be recoverable ?

Sorry if it sounds a silly question but I am aware that it all changed since 2008 (?) regarding submission of some sort of statement but I believe it was the interest that was recoverable if failure to comply.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

Many thanks again for your help FlamingParrot, it is much appreciated.

Just slightly off topic but in relation to CCA agreement - If an OC or DCA has failed to provide any form of annual statements but there is an agreed repayment plan on the account and interest frozen would payments made be recoverable ?

Sorry if it sounds a silly question but I am aware that it all changed since 2008 (?) regarding submission of some sort of statement but I believe it was the interest that was recoverable if failure to comply.

Ah, I remember that, used to be a common myth back in the days when UE was a hot topic. I don't think there's any case law that supports the above. As this forum is read by so many people, it would be lovely if someone jumped in and said: "You're wrong, here's the case..." and supplied a linky. ray: ray: ray:

[Bazza]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

That was exactly what they sent to the person I told you about, who WON in court against MKDP! :clap2: A front page with her name and address and that box.

The other pages don't seem to belong together, the layouts and fonts don't match. Not a very good recon me thinks.

I know it's been a long time but have you any idea how you applied for this card? I assume it wasn't online that long ago. In branch? Over the phone? Back then they often sent the T&Cs with the card carrier rather than being presented at the time of signature. That being the case it would make it UE under s.127(3) as in the case of the person who won in court.

I also had a Morgan Stanley card from around that time and TBH I haven't the faintest what happened to it, whether I paid it off or not. I think I did at some point then I started using it again and it expired 10 years ago when I was abroad so I never got a new one. Never been contacted about it, if I didn't pay it off then it would be SBd anyway. :grin: It may even be possible that lurking in the depths of my storage room there could be a MSDW application form or agreement, I'm not a hoarder as such but I'm not took keen on throwing things away. I think my MSDW card was an application sent in a mailout, I used to get a lot of those at the time.

Yes FlamingParrot it looks as if it's been hurriedly put together to say the least

I am a bit of a hoarder and may still have details in the loft so will have a look over the weekend and report back. If I remember I am sure it was via a postal application.

I know it was passed to Goldfish at one point then over to Barclaycard. When it was with MDSW I remember Once making a large payment to my account to pay for some flights and within a couple of days they reduced my balance and transaction was declined ! Totally embarrassing as I was unaware until a few days later they notified that they had reduced my balance.

[Bazza]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

Ah, I remember that, used to be a common myth back in the days when UE was a hot topic. I don't think there's any case law that supports the above. As this forum is read by so many people, it would be lovely if someone jumped in and said: "You're wrong, here's the case..." and supplied a linky. ray: ray: ray:

Cheers anyway and perhaps I will start a new thread to that effect and see if anyone can confirm (just posted it on forum). :tinysmile_twink_t2:

Going back to Barclaycard response is there something that I can use to respond accordingly i.e. a follow-up to initial CCA request response where insufficient details provided ?

[Bazza]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

Hello Bazza,

There has been no criminal penalty for no compliance with a CCA request for years, 12 + 2 Working Days is the time scale, failure to comply renders the debt unenforceable until the agreement is produced.

Unless a reconstituted agreement must have:

Your name and address relevant at the time the agreement was signed
The Creditors name and address at inception .
All the T's & C's as relevant at the inception And Closure of the account. .>> Closure would be BC ( Was a new agreement provided at the acquisition of MS account by BC.
Any material amendments made during the life of the agreement. see above.
Any other documents mentioned in the T's & C's.
Without the above the recon does not comply with a CCA request.

nem

Nem,

Looking at what I have attached do you think they have complied with the above ?

[nemesis45]

Re: Barclaycard CCA request

Nem,

Looking at what I have attached do you think they have complied with the above ?

Hello Bazz I'm unable to open your attachment at the moment I expect someone will take a look for you, if it's their usual attempts at creating recons it's likely to be full of holes.

nem