Bryan Carter/Lowells

[lfcfan]

I have been chasing this debt up with Vanquis for some quite some time now, I've sent them Multiple emails requesting the CCA to prove that I know this alleged debt which I have no knowledge of ever taking, I've asked them for Statements but they have never also sent them, I contacted them on the 15th of April 2015 with a CCA request and only just heard back now from BC.

Today I got in the post a "Digital Signed Application" see screenshot below,What I want to know what should I do now? It's been over 70 days of me asking for this for a start and then they send me something which looks like it wouldn't hold up in any court if they went that route should I Ignore them or send some sort of letter and they said I have to respond by 7th of july before they decide to take legal action, They also sent me a copy of the Vanquis terms and conditions page from 2008/2009, It's taken word for word and no agreement was shown just the terms and conditions everyone has access too.

Yes, they actually look like this and was printed Blacked out, I've had a quick look what they look like in color of other members on other forums and there is no Tickbox, digital signed or a hand written one.. Just personal details what could of been typed in, I've blanked out personal details as should.










Thanks for helping!

[nemesis45]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

Hi welcome to LB.

Is the "Digital Signature Application Details" form all that has been provided,
no terms & conditions at all?

nem

[lfcfan]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

Hi welcome to LB.

Is the "Digital Signature Application Details" form all that has been provided,
no terms & conditions at all?

nem

Yes just the digital application form with details and They sent a Terms and Conditions page but it's basically just the bottom of this page http://www.vanquis.co.uk/credit-card...and-conditions, No Statments or Credit limit just a copy and paste from the TOC page on the homepage.. Is this valid and what stage should I do next?

[nemesis45]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

For a reconstituted agreement to satisfy a CCA request and have a reasonable chance
of being enforceable in court it must have:

1. Your name and address as it was at the inception of the agreement.
2. The creditors name and address at inception.
3. All the Ts & Cs at the opening of the account.
4. All the Ts & Cs relevant when the account was closed.
5 Any material amendments to the Ts & Cs made during
the life of the agreement.
6.Any other documents mentioned in the Ts & Cs.

I don't believe what you have is sufficient.
When was the account opened, when did it default?

nem

[nemesis45]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

If the document purports to be a reconstituted agreement it must have ALL the Ts and Cs as they
were when the account was opened and those relevant when it was closed+ any amendments
made during the life of the agreement and any other documents in the Ts &C's.
Can we see the rest of the document (s) please.
When was this account opened? What was the default date?

nem

[lfcfan]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

The rest of the documents are roughly about 20+ pages long, It's a copy and paste job more or less from http://www.vanquis.co.uk/credit-card...and-conditions but with 2008/2009 information, I've checked it word for word almost and even the page footnote says 08/09 on all of them. It's like they just printed out from a website!

Account was opened in 2008 According to the document and all it says is it's defaulted, they haven't given a date but could have a feeling it's about 2010 from when i last checked my record.. we simply asked for a copy of the agreement to try and jog our memories and we got this and still are unable to remember with dealing with this, I'm very cautious on what I do with my money! ,

again many thanks for helping nemesis45

[nemesis45]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

Happy to help!!
This is it seems a reconstituted agreement those 20 + pages will
allegedly be the terms and conditions relevant over the life of the
agreement.

What is uncertain is are they the ones applicable to your account.

Are the document divided into 2 separate bundles?

nem

[lfcfan]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

Doesn't look like they are just in number order without any breaks, It looks like the terms and conditions when you are submitting a application, I can try upload but will be tomorrow as so many! How often are a reconstituted agreement taken in court if it went there? Like I have no knowledge of this debt and I've asked them to show proof but they just more so change subject, I then did the CCA request and that's what they gave me I was more so expecting least ticked boxes or digital signed, is there anything else they should have sent in (6) as you sent? If you go to that link it looks like that word for word!

[nemesis45]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

They can be and are put before courts ultimately a judge must decide if a recon
is sufficient to enforce payment,.
A recon may satisfy a CCA request but still may not be enforceable.
When was the last payment made on the account?
Have you checked your credit file for this account?

nem

[lfcfan]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

Just double checked was a family member who I was typing this for!

Last Payment was made on account apparently was in 2010 but refused to show statements or transactions
Account was put into default in 2010 also.

[jon1965]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

The application form they sent is almost identical to the one I eas sent however on mine there were some basic mistakes such as my sex . I am assuming that the card was applied for online . As this is post 2007 I would suspect it likely to be enforceable in court as s127(3) or (4) no longer apply assuming the DN and everything else is ok. Having said that I was never sent a compliant DN and lowlife did close the account as a gesture of goodwill.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

The rest of the documents are roughly about 20+ pages long, It's a copy and paste job more or less from http://www.vanquis.co.uk/credit-card...and-conditions but with 2008/2009 information, I've checked it word for word almost and even the page footnote says 08/09 on all of them. It's like they just printed out from a website!

Account was opened in 2008 According to the document and all it says is it's defaulted, they haven't given a date but could have a feeling it's about 2010 from when i last checked my record.. we simply asked for a copy of the agreement to try and jog our memories and we got this and still are unable to remember with dealing with this, I'm very cautious on what I do with my money! ,

Doesn't look like they are just in number order without any breaks, It looks like the terms and conditions when you are submitting a application, I can try upload but will be tomorrow as so many! How often are a reconstituted agreement taken in court if it went there? Like I have no knowledge of this debt and I've asked them to show proof but they just more so change subject, I then did the CCA request and that's what they gave me I was more so expecting least ticked boxes or digital signed, is there anything else they should have sent in (6) as you sent? If you go to that link it looks like that word for word!

Just double checked was a family member who I was typing this for!

Last Payment was made on account apparently was in 2010 but refused to show statements or transactions
Account was put into default in 2010 also.

In a nutshell, if this was an online application from 2008 to 2010, you would have filled in an online form with your details and ticked a box to agree to the T&Cs to be able to proceed with the application. By ticking they box you'd have agreed in the same way as if you'd signed a printed document. :typing: For online applications from 2005 onwards, there is no requirement to send you a printed agreement to sign. This makes it very difficult to challenge the enforceability of such online agreements as the terms would have been presented to you on the website when you applied. :ranger:

An account can be unenforceable if not all the prescribed terms were present when you entered into the agreement for the card but there's no way to show what terms were there when you applied online, not unless you had printed them out right there and then, which most people probably wouldn't have. Even if it could be shown that not all the terms were there, the court would still have discretion to enforce because s.127 of the CCA which prevented a court from enforcing without a properly executed agreement was repealed with effect from April 2007 so it wouldn't apply to any accounts opened after that.

An account can also be unenforceable if the creditor has not complied with a CCA request, however, this situation can be remedied at any time by supplying a compliant copy of the agreement. On Carey v HSBC it was established that a recon satisfies a CCA request. A court could decide that an online application and recon of the terms that were in force at the time satisfies the request. :juge:

[lfcfan]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

Hi, As delivered here is whatever else came with the application form, Can you suggest what I shall do next?, They are direct links

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...73&oe=558F1261
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...84&oe=558E1582
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...03&oe=558E391A
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d0&oe=558E5498
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...01&oe=558DF5CA
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...08&oe=558E49FE
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...34&oe=558E6164
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ec&oe=558E5836


Again many thanks

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

First impressions were that all the terms appeared to be there, however, on closer inspection I noticed a discrepancy in the dates. Some pages had 09/08 on the bottom and others 05/09. When did you take out the card? If you took it out in 2008 then the terms from 2009 wouldn't have applied. Although only the first page of the photocopied booklet has the 05/09 date in the footer, it looks like the rest of the pages where the terms are follow on from there so the whole booklet would be from 2009.

Those look like copies of printed booklets and not printouts from a website at all. Did you receive the booklets with your card?

[lfcfan]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowells

First impressions were that all the terms appeared to be there, however, on closer inspection I noticed a discrepancy in the dates. Some pages had 09/08 on the bottom and others 05/09. When did you take out the card? If you took it out in 2008 then the terms from 2009 wouldn't have applied. Although only the first page of the photocopied booklet has the 05/09 date in the footer, it looks like the rest of the pages where the terms are follow on from there so the whole booklet would be from 2009.

Those look like copies of printed booklets and not printouts from a website at all. Did you receive the booklets with your card?

No Booklets at all. Just these pages, They aren't in order as I messed them up looking through them like But the only things I've received is those pages and the digital application form, I noticed that 05 footer too but thought it could be natural, they have also given me till july 7th to respond to BC