Another RBS S78 request question

[jon1965]

Included in my mind boggling list of debts is a Natwest Credit card with a balance of c.2700 on it. It had been in a DMP from 2008 until early 2012 at which point I sent a CCA request.
When the finally sent it back after much aggro (wanted signature, claimed I hadn't sent the £1 etc) I got the following
1) A print out of an internet application (no signature or tick box)
2) A letter asking me to check and sign the agreement with various notes on it
3)A credit card agreement signed by me which was deemed EN by someone we all know (included default charges of £20 etc) dated Oct 2005
4) A letter headed general conditions applying to the card (no mention of charges or interest rates)
5) The standard letter that comes with your card attached saying I am pleased to enclose your replacement card giving my credit limit and the date my account was opened . On the reverse some general conditions etc from my card account including the interest rate . However it also says two different repayment amounts depending on if the card was opened before 1/1/11 or after. (Remember this card had been in a DMP from 2008 and a bad DN and termination notice issued in 2007 so no card would have been issued in 2011)
6) The latest statement from Natwest showing the interest rates at 0%

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but as I can not find any reference to the change of charges to £12 or the change of interest rate to 0% it seems to me that they have failed with the S78 request in that they did not send the current/default T&C's

There is also a bad DN (not enough remedy time)

Last year I sent a CPUTR request and got the letter back asking for the £1 fee to which I responded that they should pass it to someone who understands things

This has been going round the houses for some time now, Triton, Wescot , Freds, Bryan carter( I got all excited at the prospect of BR) and now a letter from Regal Credit. I want to reply with the in writing no doorstep letters as well as saying it is in dispute. the old in dispute letter I sent , is I think wrong as it refers to s 127(3) but I think this falls into S78(6).

I am probably overthinking but advice would be appreciated. I never heard back

[labman]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

Is the interest rate set at 0% because interest was frozen and ceased to be charged in your DMP? :beagle:

[jon1965]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

Yes I am assuming that is why, interest and charges were definitely frozen in 2008.

The document purporting to be the letter that comes with your replacement card is a fake as it was obviously printed after jan 2011 long after the card had been destroyed and the account terminated

[mystery1]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

Included in my mind boggling list of debts is a Natwest Credit card with a balance of c.2700 on it. It had been in a DMP from 2008 until early 2012 at which point I sent a CCA request.
When the finally sent it back after much aggro (wanted signature, claimed I hadn't sent the £1 etc) I got the following
1) A print out of an internet application (no signature or tick box)
2) A letter asking me to check and sign the agreement with various notes on it
3)A credit card agreement signed by me which was deemed EN by someone we all know (included default charges of £20 etc) dated Oct 2005
4) A letter headed general conditions applying to the card (no mention of charges or interest rates)
5) The standard letter that comes with your card attached saying I am pleased to enclose your replacement card giving my credit limit and the date my account was opened . On the reverse some general conditions etc from my card account including the interest rate . However it also says two different repayment amounts depending on if the card was opened before 1/1/11 or after. (Remember this card had been in a DMP from 2008 and a bad DN and termination notice issued in 2007 so no card would have been issued in 2011)
6) The latest statement from Natwest showing the interest rates at 0%

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but as I can not find any reference to the change of charges to £12 or the change of interest rate to 0% it seems to me that they have failed with the S78 request in that they did not send the current/default T&C's

There is also a bad DN (not enough remedy time)

Last year I sent a CPUTR request and got the letter back asking for the £1 fee to which I responded that they should pass it to someone who understands things

This has been going round the houses for some time now, Triton, Wescot , Freds, Bryan carter( I got all excited at the prospect of BR) and now a letter from Regal Credit. I want to reply with the in writing no doorstep letters as well as saying it is in dispute. the old in dispute letter I sent , is I think wrong as it refers to s 127(3) but I think this falls into S78(6).

I am probably overthinking but advice would be appreciated. I never heard back

HFO CAPITAL V ROBINSON JUDGEMENT (1).pdf

M1

[labman]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

http://paulatwatsonssolicitors.wordp...g/hfo-capital/

Scroll down to 'Consumer Credit Litigation' by our very own pt! It shows Mystery 1's post of this judgment to be spot on.

[jon1965]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

So if I read that correctly, the documents they have sent me do not fulfill S78 and can only be put right by them sending all the relevant documents again and together. In addition the bad DN is not mini mouse so as things stand they can huff and puff as much as they like but achieve nothing.

Now Natwest have maintained they have complied on more than one occasion so perhaps my reply should just be that as things stand the agreement is unenforceable and not give any reasons.

You know I don't do subtle so a direct yes that's right or no you are wrong because xxxx would be much appreciated

What I have learnt over the last 18 months is that there is an awful lot more to UE than just the agreement and judging it solely on that is shortsighted

[mystery1]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

As it stands and from what you say it is unenforceable via s78. This can be fixed. They can send a new default notice too. I'd actually allude, but not specify, to the issues unless your long term plan is for statute barred or a settlement if they get legal on you otherwise if they go legal and it goes to a judge then you will not be seen in a particularly good light.

M1

[jon1965]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

Thanks M1
I am not going to mention the DN however I have written a letter saying as per my previous correspondence I believe that this is UE due to failure of my S78 request. My long term goal (unless my situation changes dramatically) is to get SB ....I did pay now I can't pay.

I also have a papertrail that shows just how inept and illiterate RBS really are

[jon1965]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

Well Natwest seem to be complete morons and I am at a loss about what to do next.

Regal credit consultants have been chasing this so I sent back 1st a letter saying that Natpest hadn't complied with my S78 request, then a letter referring them to my previous letter and finally a letter saying look this is UE due to S78 if you think it's not do your worst (or words to that effect.) All the letters digitally signed.

Today i got a letter from Natpest saying thank you for your letter in which you made a request for documents under the CCA. Then they have ticked S&* received but no signature , please sign and return.

In the past they have sent me two S78 requests, asked me for a signature for a S78 request when I asked if they held the original (CPUTR2008) and now this. As far as I can see it is still UE due to S78 , there is still a bad DN .

Do I just ignore, tell them to go to hell, or what. I really want to write a Dear Fwit letter asking them if they are as stupid as they are making themselves out to be but thats probably just anger

[mystery1]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

If you'll go to court to defend a claim then one last letter explaining that no signature is needed for CCA 74 and that under DPA 98 they only need it when they don't know who they are dealing with. Ask them if they are happy it's you and if they are not you will be reporting them for previous DPA breaches for every time they sent personal information to you at this address which would be a breach.

If you'll never go to court there is no point wasting time, paper, ink and a stamp.

M1

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

Well Natwest seem to be complete morons and I am at a loss about what to do next.

Regal credit consultants have been chasing this so I sent back 1st a letter saying that Natpest hadn't complied with my S78 request, then a letter referring them to my previous letter and finally a letter saying look this is UE due to S78 if you think it's not do your worst (or words to that effect.) All the letters digitally signed.

Bagshot bums Regal were on my case a couple of years ago, about an RBS card where I'd received an application form but no terms. They wrote a few times and I sent the usual letters from the other site. Sadly the thread was removed along with all my posts :mad and it's been a while so my memory is not very clear, but I do remember I got shot of them quite easily. I think at some point they also asked me to send RBS a CCA request and £1!

More significant is the fact that they were The Last DCA so far to contact me with regards to that account, they flew off in Jan 2012 and I haven't heard a peep from anyone since then! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Today i got a letter from Natpest saying thank you for your letter in which you made a request for documents under the CCA. Then they have ticked S&* received but no signature , please sign and return.

In the past they have sent me two S78 requests, asked me for a signature for a S78 request when I asked if they held the original (CPUTR2008) and now this. As far as I can see it is still UE due to S78 , there is still a bad DN .

Are you saying they never sent you anything in response to your s.78 request, but they wrote twice asking for your signature? Did they ever respond to the CPUTR request? Did you head it 'Formal Complaint'? :noidea:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

You're probably familiar with the letter below, have you ever sent it?

Dear Sirs

Ref: xyz

Thank you for your letter dated XX/XX/XXXX, the contents of which have been noted. In your letter you make reference to requiring my signed authorisation before you will comply with my CCA Request however, I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not require that I supply you a copy of my signature. If it is for Data Protection purposes then I can supply you with documentation to substantiate my identity to you. However, I note that to date you have happily sent statements and correspondence containing extensive sensitive private information to my address and so I wonder, if you are so concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person why has it taken you so long to raise this? As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of Data Protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998:

• Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if you are unsure of my identity; which therefore means that this account looks likely to become unenforceable until such time you actually respond to my lawful request for a copy of the agreement. I am not going to sign anything as there is nothing that formally allows you to demand such, any future failings will be swiftly reported to the regulatory bodies so I politely suggest you adhere to this refusal.

I look forward to receiving the documentation requested, within the next 14 days.

Yours faithfully,

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

From what I've seen, RBS/Natpest ALWAYS make a point of declining CCA requests signed digitally.

An alternative has been to use the anti-tamper strips to sign on top, this has often been used to force them into compliance with the CCA request. If you wish to know what sort of paperwork they have, you may want to try that. It's up to you but here it is. :decision:

Just copy and paste the strip onto the bottom of your letter, where you'd normally sign. You may have to right-click and save it to your computer, then insert it as a picture in Word if copy and paste doesn't work. :nerd: :nerd: :nerd:

[jon1965]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

Hi FP
The CCA request, yes they did eventually send me some paperwork . First they wanted a signature so I sent the no signature needed letter then finally they sent the agreement and some terms and conditions with copy stamped all over them. Did the usual missing PTs blag as I was told in was EN . Been passed around a few DCA's and some less usual Wescot, Freds, Bryan carter, Nelson Guest and now this lot.
I have been sending the usual sold in dispute and stuff.
When i did send the CPUTR letter it was in the early days when P1 had only just defected so no I didn't head it formal complaint. They wrote back asking for £1 so I replied with a pass it to your data controller (might have been a cloggy idea)

On a couple of occasions I have had letters saying please send us your £1 , I think Regal was one of them...if I were cynical I would think it was a way of getting a payment off me , but I am never cynical:wink1:

More recently , since I have been allowed to think for myself instead of being told what to do I have realised exactly what is wrong with the paperwork which involves termination and reducing the interest rate to 0 , stuff like that so that S78 has not been complied with.

I have sent a letter off so will wait to see what they say , probably take them 6 months to write back asking me for the £1 :rolleyes:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Another RBS S78 request question

Hi FP
The CCA request, yes they did eventually send me some paperwork . First they wanted a signature so I sent the no signature needed letter then finally they sent the agreement and some terms and conditions with copy stamped all over them. Did the usual missing PTs blag as I was told in was EN . Been passed around a few DCA's and some less usual Wescot, Freds, Bryan carter, Nelson Guest and now this lot.

Uhmmm, I wonder why it would have been enforceable. I got a similar thing and it was totally UE. Of course without seeing it, it's hard to tell. :noidea:

When i did send the CPUTR letter it was in the early days when P1 had only just defected so no I didn't head it formal complaint. They wrote back asking for £1 so I replied with a pass it to your data controller (might have been a cloggy idea)

msl: msl: msl: PI 'defected' on the same day as me, if I remember correctly. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have sent a letter off so will wait to see what they say , probably take them 6 months to write back asking me for the £1 :rolleyes:

...or not, as the case may be... I haven't heard anything back, they've all given up the ghost! :marchmellow::marchmellow::marchmellow: