S 77 request

[jon1965]

A while ago I sent off a S77 request for a loan. When it came back I was told it was enforceable but because I am skint I have been blagging it. Anyway today I had another letter so I got the file out and realise they sent me a signed agreement , a full list of payments made , the DD mandate but no T&C's. On the agreement it refers to section 3(a) overleaf but there is no overleaf or anything else.

I guess I should be telling them they are in default of the CCA request?

Any thoughts

LV CCA EDIT.pdf

In case PT is having kittens at the black marker I copied the original before getting the pen out

[charitynjw]

Re: S 77 request

Hi jon1965,

If they haven't sent the T & C's (Those that existed at inception of the agreement, plus current ones/modification notices to the original), technically they have not fulfilled their remit as per CCA.
I also note that they do not mention T & Cs in their covering letter.

Btw have you considered reclaiming the PPI?

[jon1965]

Re: S 77 request

Hi Dx :tinysmile_grin_t:

I actually cancelled the PPI as soon as the loan was paid into my account.
It's quite odd as this is my largest debt by quite a way and they have been almost the quietest. It was also one of the debts that was assigned almost as soon as it was terminated by LV , alas I do not have any of those letters as my head was firmly in the sand at that point

[basa48]

Re: S 77 request

As far as I can see the loan agreement is fully enforceable. It contains all the prescribed terms on the signed document.

The lack of T&Cs is probably easily overcome by the creditor if needed.

[jon1965]

Re: S 77 request

Basa while I agree that on the surface it looks like it is enforceable if the CCA errors are rectified there are a few glaring errors and as they do not have the original and have stated that what they sent is complete they may have some difficulty. This debt is now owned by Hillsden who bought it off eith MSDW or LV. I took it out at the time they were merging their loan books.
Not only are there terms referred to that are not there, they refer to the payment being one month after the release of the funds...when was that?
They also, within 4 months of inception were charging £12 and not the £15 the agreement says .
They then sent a DN in november that was not rectified and another DN for a different amount in Jan which again wasnt rectified.

Anyway it is really all academic as if they issued me with a SD I think I may invite them in for tea a cake and if hes nice a special treat

Thank you for your comments though, but you have to admit that what they sent fails under the CCA1974 as a S77 request.

[charitynjw]

Re: S 77 request

Hi jon1965,

Have you received Notices of Assignment which link the present debt 'owner' to the original creditor? (ie is there a paper trail showing NoA's in sequence?).

[jon1965]

Re: S 77 request

Yes I have but I do not have them now sadly

[charitynjw]

Re: S 77 request

Re the documents shown in post #1 above, & referring to the third one headed "Important - you should read this carefully", was this on the back of the copy of the agreement sent to you in response to the s77, or was it a separate sheet?
& is there a date, or indication of a date, on it? (can't make out what is printed on the bottom!)

[jon1965]

Re: S 77 request

Hi Charity
It was definitely a separate sheet of paper, I still have the request as it arrived from Hillsden , complete with staples. I am not at home at the moment but will have a look when I get in later about what is at the bottom

[jon1965]

Re: S 77 request

Had a look at the original and your guess is as good as mine. It is as it appears on the scan my best guess at the numbers are 0015599105 although the 1's could be 4's .No idea really

[charitynjw]

Re: S 77 request

In case I missed something, when did you last pay into, or acknowledge in writing, the debt.

[jon1965]

Re: S 77 request

Sadly a little over a year ago. I was in a dmp. Then I went over to the dark side and ccad everyone. Stopped paying all my debts even ones like this that I were told were enforceable. No job no house no money what else could I do.

[basa48]

Re: S 77 request

Basa while I agree that on the surface it looks like it is enforceable if the CCA errors are rectified there are a few glaring errors and as they do not have the original and have stated that what they sent is complete they may have some difficulty.

Not sure what you regard as 'glaring errors' and whilst I admire your optimism I feel that all a judge would be interested in is did you get the loan and did you know what the interest rate, amount of loan and method of repayment is. These terms are all clearly displayed and signed for. Most anything else is ' de minimis'.

Not only are there terms referred to that are not there, they refer to the payment being one month after the release of the funds...when was that?

Not sure this would be relevant as you clearly received the money and presumably started to repay it at some stage. The exact dates are not really important although you agreed to make the first payment 4 months after the funds were released.

They also, within 4 months of inception were charging £12 and not the £15 the agreement says .

Again why would this be prejudicial? It is in your favour and as I recall there was some legislation for creditors to reduce late payment charges.

They then sent a DN in november that was not rectified and another DN for a different amount in Jan which again wasnt rectified.

AFAIK They can issue as many DNs as they wish until they terminate the agreement.

Anyway it is really all academic as if they issued me with a SD I think I may invite them in for tea a cake and if hes nice a special treat

Not sure what is meant by this?

Thank you for your comments though, but you have to admit that what they sent fails under the CCA1974 as a S77 request.

I'm not so sure that is important as in court all they have to prove is that you got the money and signed a contract (S61). Nothing to do with S77.

[jon1965]

Re: S 77 request

Basa
I would have thought it entirely obvious what I meant , if they served me a SD I would say thank you very much, now make me BR and save me the £525 I do not have.

S77(4) The creditor can not enforce the agreement while the default exists.
Now there are clearly several pieces of paper missing from my CCA request
T&C's for the loan at inception and at default
T&C's for the PPI at inception

As for what is de minimus that is not for us to decide, I used to be told that a bad DN was de minimus but apparently it;s not

Has S77(4) been repealed? and if so when?

Of course you say that it has all been seen and signed for but of course .......

[charitynjw]

Re: S 77 request

The 'Carey' decision has really made for tough going for the debtor in a CCA case. (I'm not sure whether the lower courts fully understand it!)

You'll have your work cut out for you, should you try to avoid the debt on the above basis.

It would be nice, however, if we consumers could have a 'win' on these arguments - sort of even up the balance.

Cometh the hour?.......................