Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

[Sweetcheeks]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

Hiya JON 1965. That's fine no problem I'll hang on for FLAMING PARROT if you don't mind
THANK YOU

[Sweetcheeks]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

Hiya all
can any one look at credit card agreement at #4 and advice please

[basa48]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

Hiya all
can any one look at credit card agreement at #4 and advice please

I've had a quick look at the agreement and it appears as if it MIGHT be compliant with the CCA.

I would however like to clarify a few things.

• Are the two docs the front and back of one piece of paper or are they totally separate pieces of paper?

• When was the original agreement signed?

• Does the application bit refer to T&Cs attached or on the reverse or some other wording?

• Do you pay the minimum 'contractual' (i.e. as stated in the agreement) monthly payments?

If you are not paying the contractual minimum, then even though 'arranged', you ARE in default and the lender is all but obliged to issue a DN.

The lender is perfectly entitled to 'hike' the interest rates at any time (by giving notice). MBNA are fond of this. I went from 18% to 35% in a few years !!

You should post up a copy of the DN. MBNAs DNs are frequently seriously faulty.

[Sweetcheeks]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

Hiya basa48 Thank You. For your reply.
Answer to your questions are
1 they are separate doc's
2 the application was signed on 20th April 2000. The T&Cs are dated 19th Nov 2010
3 it's such a poor copy I'am unable to read it
4 paid all contractual payment never missed and never late until the so called GOOD WILL GESTURE they made me I wouldn't care but I wasn't even in financial difficulties I was just seriously ill and wanted to opt out of yet another interest rate rise as it was getting out of hand with them mine went from 10.9%
to 29.9% in the few years they had it.

read somewhere that the T&Cs for BOS were for interest. SIMPLE on the account and MBNA modified this and charged COMPOUND interest Can they do this?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

Hiya basa48 Thank You. For your reply.
Answer to your questions are
1 they are separate doc's
2 the application was signed on 20th April 2000. The T&Cs are dated 19th Nov 2010
3 it's such a poor copy I'am unable to read it

I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to reply earlier.

The above says it all! The terms are not those from inception but from 10 years later! They should have supplied the terms from inception you are supposed to have agreed to when you applied to the card, not terms from 10 years later! :nono:

I have a similar situation with an RBS card where they supplied just the one side of the application form and a number of terms, it was deemed unenforceable on two other forums in 2010 and 2011 and I haven't heard anything about this account since Jan 2012. :grin:

4 paid all contractual payment never missed and never late until the so called GOOD WILL GESTURE they made me I wouldn't care but I wasn't even in financial difficulties I was just seriously ill and wanted to opt out of yet another interest rate rise as it was getting out of hand with them mine went from 10.9%
to 29.9% in the few years they had it.

Are you still up to date with payments? Because the whole purpose of a CCA request is to assess the enforceability of the agreement, in case they decided to take you to court, which could only happen if you defaulted on the account.

As for interest rate hikes, MBNA did the same with me in 2009, increased it to 35%, which meant that, even with the DD going out every month for minimum payment as I'd done for 15 years, the balance was INCREASING every month without using the card (maxed out), that put me over the limit and they started adding overlimit charges on top! :rant: :mad2:

As they wouldn't budge, I just stopped paying in Jan 2010 and sent a CCA request in March 2010, they replied saying they couldn't find it. Haven't heard a peep since Dec 2011.

A friend of mine recently beat a rate hike on a Santander 123 he took out only a couple of years ago, threatening to close his accounts with Santander and go elsewhere, but that probably wouldn't work with MBNA where you can't have a current account, etc. with them.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

Hi Jon 1965. Thanks for your reply,
Exactly. Just was I was thinking, have already CCAd them and what I got was an application form from 2000 Bank of Scotland and MBNA. T&Cs for 2010 I've uploaded them at #4. What's the UE route I'm not very savvy YET. It dos'nt look like the DN is going to go away anyway THAT JOBSWORTH I spoke to was
ADAMANT. WONDER IF HE CAN WHISTLE?

The UE route means assessing whether a credit agreement is enforceable or not, i.e. whether they would be successful in obtaining a CCJ against you or not. This only applies to agreements entered into before April 2007, which yours obviously is. Basically if they can't supply a properly executed agreement with all the prescribed terms from INCEPTION, they would struggle in court. The idea is to challenge the account before it gets to that stage, to avoid ending up in court in the first place.

On another post you mention keeping up payments, here you have a DN... I can't see the date it was issued to see if it gives enough time (14 days + service) but it looks like they are demanding the whole balance rather than the arrears, they should only demand payment of the arrears. Do bear in mind a defective DN really comes into its own if they ever took this to court, in which case it could be used in your defence, so you should keep it very safe but don't mention anything about it to MBNA. :tape:

If you are not paying and want to follow the UE route, you should send a letter back saying all you have received is an application form and that the account is unenforceable for that reason.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

I do not know how much the balance is but if the minimum payment is above £80 it must be quite high.
If you are maintaining more than the minimum payment can they still issue a DN?

The balance appears to be over £8k, in which case the minimum would be around £240 as were my MBNA at the time.

If it was me, I'd stop making the £80 payments, if you don't keep up contractual payments the creditor can default you and record a default with the CRAs, which they have probably done as they've issued a DN. In that case, all you're doing is keeping the debt alive rather than letting it go SBd. Without terms from inception, this is unenforceable anyway. :thumb:

[Sweetcheeks]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

Hi FP THANK YOU. For getting back to me now were to start, I was paying £175pm then yet another interest rise. Phoned to complain and opt out and close the account. MBNA WHY what's the reason
ME interest getting to steep nothing coming off balance and I'am seriously ill with 2 different lots of cancer. MBNA. Have you medical evidence. ME well obviously. MBNA under the circumstances we'll freeze the interest and that will help eleviate some of my worry but must see evidence first so I sent it off. They said yes thats fine pay £80pm from April /May 2011 and did so every month without fail NEXT THING I KNOW SLAPPED A DN ON ME. Have queried this numerous times and they are now saying it was A GOOD WILL GESTURE ON THEIR PART AND NOT A PAYMENT PLAN, ME eleviate my stress think your helping me in my grave. CAN YOU SEE THEIR LOGIC COS I'M SURE I CAN'T. NUMPTIES
Got letter from the clowns 9/1/12 saying pay arrears or go on a reduced payment plan hahaha missed there vocation should have been on the stage
DN dated 9/1/12 asking for arrears £965.88 by 26/1/12
Letter 12/3/12 agreement terminated registered with CRA but please continue with your payments. I think I should have stopped All agreed payments up to date even paid the yesterday. Wish I had'nt now did't know I was keeping the debt alive Should I CCA them again because this copy is illegible what you see on the upload is exactly what I see on the copy even had magnifying glass on it and still can't read it


Do you know anything about this I saw it online BOS Agreements T&Cs had the right to vary interest rates but NOT the manner in which it was charged so it was interest at simple interest and MBNA did not have the right to change this to compound interest therefore modifying the agreement Would like to here what you think about this


Anyway will I CCA OR SAR them not sure
Wait to here form you FP THANKING YOU

[basa48]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

In the meantime I would be very interested in the small print in the box headed BANK OF SCOTLAND AFFINITY MASTERCARD (where you've signed), and the small print in the box above.

It looks very like an application MBNA tried to fob me off with and with mine they even superimposed T&Cs on the reverse!

It clearly says it is an application not an agreement and possibly wouldn't hold as enforceable in court. Unfortunately I think the DN is good (which is very unusual for MBNA).

As has been pointed out, continuing to make payments is delaying it becoming SBd.

Depending on the exact wording I mentioned above, I would consider writing to them suggesting you can no longer keep up payments and that without sight of any terms & conditions that you might have agreed to at inception (in fact you do not recall receiving any T&Cs either when making the application or thereafter) you are unsure as to what your actual obligations are.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

Hiya. Thank you for your reply
No it was just asked for a copy of my agreement didn't know about all these other thing at the time.

I would say a proper s.78 CCA request has to be sent in order to make any assertions with regards to the account. Without such a request, you may not have legal recourse to argue the enforceability of the account or put it in dispute. It costs just £1 + recorded delivery postage. :thumb:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

CCA request letter below. It should be sent recorded delivery with a PO for £1 and signed using a computer font rather than your real signature. :thumb:

Dear Sirs,

Account or Reference No.:

I hereby formally request a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement, pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974).I require you to provide me with a true copy, or reconstituted copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit (12 + 2 days).

In line with recent OFT Guidance (issued Oct 2010) surrounding Unenforceability, I presume you're aware that the OFT has stipulated that 'sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements'. This simply means that under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:

• a copy of their agreement
• copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
• a statement of account

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:

• make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
• get a court judgment against the debtor

So, in line with the OFT Guidance, and the Consumer Credit Act, please find attached my £1 payment, which is the statutory fee - note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose. If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee and then remove the incorrect entry from your systems.

I do, expect the main actions to be dealt with, as matter of course, and look forward to hearing from you within the prescribed time-scales quoted however, in the meantime, I require that you clarify your position on this point as failure to do so, even by omission or lack of a response, will be regarded as an attempt to deliberately misrepresent or conceal the legal position regarding this matter to which an appropriate complaint will be made to the OFT.

Yours faithfully,

[basa48]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

Yeh, sorry, it's a while since I did all this stuff !!!

You should do it all by the book from now.

Request the CCA and assuming you get a similar response to what you have already got then you can put the account into dispute and (at least) threaten to stop payments.

[jon1965]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

Agreed
Follow the book
CCA request first and see what they send. If the fulfill the CCA request then you can look at the agreement and decide if it enforceable.

[Sweetcheeks]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

Hiya basa48 and thanks for your reply. Got a job and a half on here good thing I've got a 35xsuper zoom on my camera , well here goes

This is a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. Sign it only if you agree to be legally bound by its terms.


In the box above it reads
The parties to this agreement are BOS the their address, and the person who's name & address appears above in 1A section 1 Please issue a BOS AFFINITY MASTERCARD TO ME. I confirm that the information is true and complete and authorise you to make enquiries you consider necessary including a request for a reference from my bank in connection with this Application or Credit Agreement. I accept and agree to be bound by the BOS AFFINITY MASTERCARD CONDITIONS of this as set out overleaf and as amended from time to time.
If my APPLICATION is accepted I authorise you to issue an additional BOS AFFINITY MASTERCARD to the person named and authorised above of my card account Delete the above sentence if not required


MBNA only supplied their T&Cs from November 2010
Can I ask were you originally with the BOS and if so did it state in you T&Cs interest at simple interest and not compounded interest like what MBNA have now done, cos over time this makes quite a difference to the outstanding balance

[Sweetcheeks]

Re: Urgent help please. Credit card agreement

Hiya Jon 1965. Yes your right I'll get cracking with another CCA request and see what the clowns come up with this time. Should they not have given me the full info the first time around? Or are they playing funny funny hoping that's an end of the matter because to be honest I did'nt know any better until I found this forum and the good people on it. Think I would have just plodded along the best I could