Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if complaint

[Smilesallround]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

Don't worry about that for now, lets get to the bottom of the application form. Those are likely to be terms from 2006/07 not from inception. But the other ones from 2004/05 would be the ones, so they would have complied with s.78, the others would be just varied terms. The main question here is the existence of the application form, which you didn't fill in, so where did it come from? :confused2:

Don't mention the 2 sets of terms, let's just see how they explain the existence of the application form. That should keep them busy for a while, they will have to go back to Sainsburys Bank to find out. :thumb:

Manythanks i will state only that as i pretty much know which credit cards i applied for online and which i didnt and it seems Sainsburys only do credit card apps online or over the telephone. Am i right? But this form as data inputted for a store ID so which store was it opened at. I think its fake.

In regards to tick boxes the 2006-2007 agreement has a section with tick box to agree to terms but the 2004-2005 one doesnt.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

Manythanks i will state only that as i pretty much know which credit cards i applied for online and which i didnt and it seems Sainsburys only do credit card apps online or over the telephone. Am i right? But this form as data inputted for a store ID so which store was it opened at. I think its fake.

I recall being approached at a Sainsburys store asking me to apply for a credit card in 2003, so they were probably also doing them in store at some point. I guess you could apply in various ways. 2005 wasn't that long ago and you seem to remember quite well what you did, so just tell them that's not a form you filled in, it's not your handwriting, etc. and leave the online bit for them to figure out.

In regards to tick boxes the 2006-2007 agreement has a section with tick box to agree to terms but the 2004-2005 one doesnt.

The form you had to fill in online would have had such a box stating you agreed to be bound by the T&Cs, without ticking it, you wouldn't have been able to complete the application process and get the card. But let's see what they respond with about the application form, seems to me that, in their attempt to be over-zealous, they have overdone it, and supplied you with something that may well turn out to be their undoing, when they could just have sent the sets of terms, as you applied AFTER Jan 2005, that would suffice, without the need for a sign application form. Silly Billies! :thumb:

[Smilesallround]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

I recall being approached at a Sainsburys store asking me to apply for a credit card in 2003, so they were probably also doing them in store at some point. I guess you could apply in various ways. 2005 wasn't that long ago and you seem to remember quite well what you did, so just tell them that's not a form you filled in, it's not your handwriting, etc. and leave the online bit for them to figure out.

The form you had to fill in online would have had such a box stating you agreed to be bound by the T&Cs, without ticking it, you wouldn't have been able to complete the application process and get the card. But let's see what they respond with about the application form, seems to me that, in their attempt to be over-zealous, they have overdone it, and supplied you with something that may well turn out to be their undoing, when they could just have sent the sets of terms, as you applied AFTER Jan 2005, that would suffice, without the need for a sign application form. Silly Billies! :thumb:

Many thanks Flaming Parrot, i will send the letter out and will keep you posted on this thread. Fingers crossed!!!

I am quite surprised really they churned out a application form since it was something i applied for in 2005 thought they didnt keep records back then for more than 6 years or am i wrong?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

Many thanks Flaming Parrot, i will send the letter out and will keep you posted on this thread. Fingers crossed!!!

I am quite surprised really they churned out a application form since it was something i applied for in 2005 thought they didnt keep records back then for more than 6 years or am i wrong?

That is a common argument from the banks when you send them a SAR. They do keep older records, but probably archived away somewhere. However, they are supposed to keep all the agreements regardless of how old they are, otherwise ALL cards and loans applied for before 2007 would be unenforceable due to lack of agreement! Wouldn't that be great? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Smilesallround]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

What is a SAR? sorry im completely new to this.

Well its just my luck they send me this application...............i am dreading the rest of the CCA requests i have sent. If i had known before i would not have been paying and requested a CCA long time ago.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

A SAR is a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act. You'd normally send one if you want to get copies of all your statements and other documents from a bank, although they are not limited to financial information, you can send a SAR to employers, educational institutions, the DWP, etc.: http://www.ico.org.uk/for_the_public...al_information

The letter on that page is fairly generic, if you wish to request specific information (such as for the purpose of reclaiming), you can use a more tailored letter. There's a £10 fee and the company should respond within 40 days.

As they say, it's never too late to start taking control. If you sent other CCA requests, do post up what they send so we can take a look. :thumb:

[Smilesallround]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

Just drafting up the letter..............shall i leave out the paragraphs:

"The terms and conditions are plainly not a copy of those on the original agreement. There may only be one difference identified (it is difficult to tell from the illegible copy of the original) but that is enough. The obligation is to provide "a copy of the executed agreement".

This plainly cannot be a copy of the original agreement. It is not open to the claimant to say that the difference is 'de minimis'. They have to provide a copy of the original (reconstituted or otherwise)"


As you said to not mention credit agreement? Or do we leave it in?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

Just drafting up the letter..............shall i leave out the paragraphs:

"The terms and conditions are plainly not a copy of those on the original agreement. There may only be one difference identified (it is difficult to tell from the illegible copy of the original) but that is enough. The obligation is to provide "a copy of the executed agreement".

This plainly cannot be a copy of the original agreement. It is not open to the claimant to say that the difference is 'de minimis'. They have to provide a copy of the original (reconstituted or otherwise)"

As you said to not mention credit agreement? Or do we leave it in?

I see where you're coming from, however, if you look at the letter, you will see those paragraphs are actually quotes from the MBNA v McCullagh judgment, i.e. case law, rather than something you are saying about your own agreement, if you see what I mean, so you can leave them in.

[Smilesallround]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

Many thanks, Flaming Parrot - i will keep you posted.

[bill shidding]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

Hi Smilesallround, sorry for jumping on your thread, you asked a question above -

Also does a signature have to be on the terms and conditions document by both parties?

And Flamingparrot answered -

This is a common misconception, you won't find many credit agreements with the lender's signature on them.

I would like to ask how a regulated agreement can be "properly executed" if it is not in compliance with CCA74 Sec61(1)(a)?

I am particularly interested in the answer, as I have recently used this argument in a defence.

Bill.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

I would like to ask how a regulated agreement can be "properly executed" if it is not in compliance with CCA74 Sec61(1)(a)?

I am particularly interested in the answer, as I have recently used this argument in a defence.

Bill.

With regards to the lender's signature, I'm going to quote what PT2537 -a lawyer specialising in consumer credit :yo: has written elsewhere:

Goodman v J Eban [1954] 1 QB 550, 561

A stamp, "X" or other marking can be a signature for the purposes of executing a document

Below is a reference to the case in question:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Y...20Eban&f=false

[bill shidding]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

Hi Smilesallround and Flamingparrot.

Thank you for the response.

So the creditor must place a "mark" on the agreement to "accept" and open the account.

Does Smilesallround copy of the agreement state it is a redacted/reconstructed copy?

It may be due to the quality of the copy, but I can't see where the creditor "marked" it.

Maybe of use to smilesallround if you would check/confirm.

Bill.

[Smilesallround]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

Hi Smilesallround and Flamingparrot.

Thank you for the response.

So the creditor must place a "mark" on the agreement to "accept" and open the account.

Does Smilesallround copy of the agreement state it is a redacted/reconstructed copy?

It may be due to the quality of the copy, but I can't see where the creditor "marked" it.

Maybe of use to smilesallround if you would check/confirm.

Bill.

There is no mark by lender indicating they have executed the agreement. Also there is no mention this is recontructed copy.

[Smilesallround]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

Hi Smilesallround, sorry for jumping on your thread, you asked a question above -



And Flamingparrot answered -



I would like to ask how a regulated agreement can be "properly executed" if it is not in compliance with CCA74 Sec61(1)(a)?

I am particularly interested in the answer, as I have recently used this argument in a defence.

Bill.

Well reading CurlyBens post on CCA requests i thought there needed to be a lenders signature hence why i asked the question.

note sure does anyone else know.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sainsbury Reply to CCA - Can someone have a look at documents and advise if compl

You guys may want to look at this brand new post from consumer credit specialist PT2537 :yo: with regards to what can be regarded as unenforceable: http://paulatwatsonssolicitors.wordp...t-arose-today/