CC agreement Blank space

[Boltmaker]

Morning everyone,

I am led to believe that a photocopy of a cc agreement which bears no signature on behalf of the bank (coop) contains no interest rates or credit limit is deemed unenforceable. Is this correct. Also the copy supplied came without any T&Cs either original or present ones.

[Boltmaker]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

Omitted to say also that the dispute has been passed around three DCAs in the passed, all backed down when confronted with the above. One even offered 40% discount for F&F.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

I am led to believe that a photocopy of a cc agreement which bears no signature on behalf of the bank (coop) contains no interest rates or credit limit is deemed unenforceable. Is this correct. Also the copy supplied came without any T&Cs either original or present ones.

The agreement should have the following:

• The name and address of both the debtor and creditor

• Financial Information
  • the credit limit
  • total charge for credit broken down into constituent parts, rate of interest and whether it is fixed or variable, and how and when interest is applied.
  • the timing and amounts of repayments, APR
  
  

• A statement of your rights: YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL - Once you have signed this agreement, you will have a short time in which you can cancel it. The creditor will send you exact details of how and when you can do this.

• A signature box in the prescribed form signed by you

The creditors' signature is not usually on the agreement but all the prescribed terms should be on there. The relevant terms are the ones from inception, i.e. the ones you allegedly agreed to and they should be part of the document you signed when you opened the account.

The above only applies to accounts opened before April 2007 though, when s.127 of the Consumer Credit Act which was the one that stopped a court from issuing an enforcing order unless there was a properly executed agreement, was repealed. If you got this card after that date you're out of luck! :ohwell:

What card was this?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

Omitted to say also that the dispute has been passed around three DCAs in the passed, all backed down when confronted with the above. One even offered 40% discount for F&F.

When did you last paid this? Bear in mind any repayment offers you make could acknowledge the debt and reset the SBd clock! :clock:

[Boltmaker]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

Coop from 1990s, signed by customer but space for bank signature is left unsigned and blank

[Boltmaker]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

Last payments made were 2009

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

Coop from 1990s, signed by customer but space for bank signature is left unsigned and blank

Lack of creditor's signature doesn't make it UE but if it's from the 90s and there are missing prescribed terms, then it would be UE.

Last payments made were 2009

In which case you're over half way through to SBd, so be very careful not to acknowledge. If another DCA contacts you about this do post on here. Sounds like they haven't got a leg to stand on.

I've got an RBS card from 99 with missing PTs, last paid Jan 2010, been through a couple of DCAs but haven't heard from anyone since Jan 2012. It pays to wait! :clock:

[Boltmaker]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

Account now been bought by and assigned to another DCA who are chasing.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

DCAs don't know whether there are disputes or whether the accounts are enforceable so it's a good idea to write to however is chasing you, informing them of the dispute. This should make them go away as they've done with me:

Dear Sirs

Account No xyz

Thank you for your letter dated [INSERT DATE], the contents of which have been noted.

With reference to the above account, I would like to point out that this account is formally in dispute with [INSERT NAME OF ORIGINAL CREDITOR] and has been since they failed to acknowledge my Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA) Request, in line with s.77-s.79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974).

Being that the Original Creditor is now in default of my CCA Request and OFT Debt Collection Guidelines, I consider this account to be in serious dispute, especially due to the fact that whilst my CCA Request remains in default, enforcement action is not permitted in line with s.127(3) of the CCA1974.

Similarly, in line with recent OFT Guidance surrounding Unenforceability, I presume you're aware that you, as a creditor / debt collection agency will be aware, the OFT has stipulated the following;

Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements. Under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:

• a copy of their agreement
• copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
• a statement of account.

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:

• make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
• get a court judgment against the debtor

As this account is clearly unenforceable, I expect you to write back and confirm that no further action will be taken and that the account is now closed and no further correspondence, I respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the original creditor due to the fact you cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities as the account was already in dispute at the time you became involved.

Yours faithfully,

[Boltmaker]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

I should also add that about 2K in interest and charges have been added to the aaccount whilst still in dispute since last payment in 2009

[Boltmaker]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

Surely the above cannot be correct. I understood that charges and interest could not be added to an account that is in dispute.

[mystery1]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

With reference to the above account, I would like to point out that this account is formally in dispute with [INSERT NAME OF ORIGINAL CREDITOR] and has been since they failed to acknowledge my Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA) Request, in line with s.77-s.79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974).

Being that the Original Creditor is now in default of my CCA Request and OFT Debt Collection Guidelines, I consider this account to be in serious dispute, especially due to the fact that whilst my CCA Request remains in default, enforcement action is not permitted in line with s.127(3) of the CCA1974.

S127(3) has nothing to do with s77-79. It would be unenforceable by way of s77(4), s78(6) or s79(3).

M1

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

S127(3) has nothing to do with s77-79. It would be unenforceable by way of s77(4), s78(6) or s79(3).

M1

Are you saying the wording of the above is wrong? Because I've sent quite a few dispute letters myself which were worded like that, although it's been a while now, I was on a different forum back then and that's what you were meant to send! :confused2:

[mystery1]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

Yes. A fault with a s77/8/9 copy is curable. If s127(3) or 127 (4) come in to play it will always be unenforceable.

It might be that the s77/8/9 copy exposes a fault which brings S127 (3) or 127 (4) into play but then again it might not.

I'm not sure many in the DCA game will notice but it is incorrect.

M1

[jon1965]

Re: CC agreement Blank space

This fries my brain and maybe I am taking this in the wrong direction

So if they send you an incomplete CCA request you should reply with it is in dispute by virtue of S77(4) S78(6) or S79(3)

Now I know that 77-79 are only for info and can be a recon so does the above still apply if the recon is not actually what you may have signed and if not how the hell do you prove it?