Unsigned credit agreement

[anthonydunn1]

Hi All

I am posting this on behald of my mother and hope I have posted on the correct forum.

My mother has an account with Isme catalogue but due to unforeseen health problems she has now had to retire. She is now 63 years old and now only receives a state pension which is all taken through her standard expenditure like gas, electric, water, food, etc.

She owes approximately £3,900 on the catalogue and this is her only debt. She cannot afford to pay them anything at all. I have requested a copy of her credit agreement on her behalf and they replied with, 1. A re-constituted copy of Mrs Dunn's credit agreement sent to her at the time of opening the account; and 2. A copy of her current credit agreement, which includes all applicable contractual variations and amendments that have taken place since the account was opened. The account was opened on 28th April 2008.

One of the agreements which I believe will be number 2, is completely blank where there should be my mothers title, full name and address and of course no signatures. The other agreement which I believe the number 1 above, has my mothers title, first and second name and full address. Nothing in the date of birth section, no telephone numbers and no account numbers in those sections and no signature.

Please help on what to do next as I would like to see if the catalogue would write this debt off based on her circumstances. Not ideal and she would like to pay it back but cannot.

Thanks in advance for your help

[Guest]

Re: Unsigned credit agreement

HI
I think that in the first instance you should write to them on your mothers behalf( get her to sign the letter also)

Explain the situation and ask them if they will consider wrighting the debt off.
There is precedent for creditors to do this and it is an option mentioned within the OFT debt collection guidance for cases of hardship.

They may say no but there is no harm in asking.

Unenforceability is not an option unfortunately as the agreement is post 2007, they may ask if you mother has any assets, so be prepared.

Also contacting one of the free advice charities CCCS or National Debtline is a good idea

D

[miliitant]

Re: Unsigned credit agreement

error

[anthonydunn1]

Re: Unsigned credit agreement

Thanks davyb will give that a try and see what they say!

Think its ridiculous you don't even have to sign for credit nowadays regardless of what year it was opened! Likely to have been no checks on my mother to ensure suitability when increasing her credit facility. And I know some people will say she is an adult and to order was her choice but she also didn't expect to have to retire and she just wants to work until she dies!

[Guest]

Re: Unsigned credit agreement

Thanks davyb will give that a try and see what they say!

Think its ridiculous you don't even have to sign for credit nowadays regardless of what year it was opened! Likely to have been no checks on my mother to ensure suitability when increasing her credit facility. And I know some people will say she is an adult and to order was her choice but she also didn't expect to have to retire and she just wants to work until she dies!

Yes all very good arguments should they not play ball. They tend to start with a small limit and presume they can keep increasing it. It is very easy to spend more than you intend which of course is exactly why they do it.
D

[miliitant]

Re: Unsigned credit agreement

little know fact on HSBC V CAREY and agreement request under section 78


The emphasis in the Carey case on section 78 appears to have obscured the real claim that exists under section 61(1)(a) and 127(3) of the Act. These sections dictate that a creditor must be able to produce a signed document (not necessarily the credit agreement) that contains the prescribed terms. The document must include the credit limit, the interest rate and details of how and when a debtor is to discharge his payment obligations. A failure to produce such a document is still capable of rendering the agreement irredeemably unenforceable.

Carey does not change the fact that if a prescribed term is misstated then there is an irredeemable breach of the CCA

[basa48]

Re: Unsigned credit agreement

little know fact on HSBC V CAREY and agreement request under section 78


The emphasis in the Carey case on section 78 appears to have obscured the real claim that exists under section 61(1)(a) and 127(3) of the Act. These sections dictate that a creditor must be able to produce a signed document (not necessarily the credit agreement) that contains the prescribed terms. The document must include the credit limit, the interest rate and details of how and when a debtor is to discharge his payment obligations. A failure to produce such a document is still capable of rendering the agreement irredeemably unenforceable.

Carey does not change the fact that if a prescribed term is misstated then there is an irredeemable breach of the CCA

The CCA 2006 (which came into force in 2007) removed s127(3)to(5) whereby failures under s61/65 were 'irredeemable'. They are now at the discretion of the court.

[anthonydunn1]

Re: Unsigned credit agreement

So basa48 does that mean that miliitant's points are incorrect then?

Is is back to just requesting them nicely to write the debt off based on my mothers circumstances?

[Guest]

Re: Unsigned credit agreement

So basa48 does that mean that miliitant's points are incorrect then?

Is is back to just requesting them nicely to write the debt off based on my mothers circumstances?

No millitant is quite right but as Basa says(and as i said earlier) the sanction of unenforceabiltiy was removed in 2007 so it does not apply to your agreement.

D

[Guest]

Re: Unsigned credit agreement

This does not mean that you cannot contest the enforcement of the agreement it must be said. But their is no automatic sanction for lack of prescribed terms or signatures as there was before the 2006 act.

If they decided to rake you to court you would have prove that you were unfairly prejudiced in someway by the creditor.

D

[anthonydunn1]

Re: Unsigned credit agreement

Ok!

I'm not sure what steps to take next. If they did take my mother to court and she lost then they would have to accept £1 per month anyway as she will never be able to pay this back due to being on just a state pension and having no disposable income. Do I send a polite letter requesting they write the balance off due to my mothers circumstances or do I write a formal letter stating relevant laws and stating they must write the balance off. If anyone could draft a letter for me to use on my mothers behalf it would really really help and my mother would really appreciate it! Thank you all so much for your help!

[Guest]

Re: Unsigned credit agreement

I think you should draft it in your own words, only you know your circumstances.
It is of course up to you what you write, however it seems foolish in my mind to go in making threats in the first instance.

They may just surprise you and agree to write it off, if they don't you then can try your legal arguments , such as they are.
Just my opinion of course

D

[anthonydunn1]

Re: Unsigned credit agreement

And a good opinion that I think I will try

Will send the polite request explaining my mothers circumstances.

Thank you for your help!