Post Judgment Contractual Interest

[Guest]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

Hi

Can't be done, the judgment was made on the orriginal POC, any contractural interest due on the agreement merged into the judgemnt at that time.

Any internst due post judgment has to be part of a new claim.

I think the arguments you need are in the information you have. The legislation says that a CCA judgment has to be a liquidated sum so it cannot contain a formula for future interest.

The judgment that was made cannot be altered because the new evidence was not part of the orriginal POC, you sould have had to been able to defend it at the time, and you could not because the intersnt was not due and you did not know what they would charge(over what period(actual sum)).

If they wish to pursue interest they must make a new complaint.

Peter

[Guest]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

The County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991

section 2a for staters

[Guest]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

Hi

If you do not mind my advice , i would say that you need to be confident in your assertions.

Memorise some stock phrases like " The interest under a consumer credit agreement is absobed into the judgment sum together with the princ iple", "The fact that no interst can be added to a judgment sum is a matter of statute"" Although the act does give mention the creditors abitly to add internst to a judgment sum it cannot be part of the judgment itself as it cannot begin to acrue until a section 130 notice is prsented post judgement"

I am sure eyou can make a few of your own. I have been in these sorts of situations and know exactly what you mean by steamrollering.

If they say that they are starting a new claim for the interest we have a whole new bucket full of pain to heap on them.

Peter

[Thorn1990]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

Thanks have that in already, one point the Claiments arguments in the main are based on the FNB Case 2001, he quotes "the fact that contractual interest and a judgment debt become merged is settled law" taken from Lord Bingham FNB Case, now we know the S17 130a requirments Supersede this stance but he dosent, do i agree and point out that if merged and not independent the he has no entitlement to PJI ! or would i be seen to be too clever taking advantage of his mistake?

The County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991

section 2a for staters

[Guest]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

Yes
i would point out any mistake.
The point is that the merged internst is all the internst that was due unde the contract, ie derived from the principle the "total credit" on the loan.

What they are chasing now is interst that is derived from the judgment sum, the act says that this is not due unil afer the judgment so how can enforcement of its payment be included in an earlier judgment

Peter

[Thorn1990]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

What i was trying to get across that he is stating that it is law that PJI and Judgment are merged and not independent then why not agree and state that clearly any interest which was due has now merged and he cannot carry on charging interest once he gained Judgment on the debt.

Yes
i would point out any mistake.
The point is that the merged internst is all the internst that was due unde the contract, ie derived from the principle the "total credit" on the loan.

What they are chasing now is interst that is derived from the judgment sum, the act says that this is not due unil afer the judgment so how can enforcement of its payment be included in an earlier judgment

Peter

[Thorn1990]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

Hearing Shortly

If all goes bad and the Judge confirms the Post Judgment Interest can i appeal?

Could i ask for a Time order on the debt and vary,reduce and freeze the interest?

Could i then request no Order of sale unless in de-fault of the agreed payments.

Or would this be a separate application from myself?

[Thorn1990]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

What were we saying about being "Steamrolled!"

Had the Hearing, the Judge hadnt even looked at my Rejoinder to the Claiments WS.
He dismissed my arguments that we had not received the 130a Notices (even though we had a witness sworn on oath) and they were also not presented in the Charge application papers, he added 1 may have not been sent but not all 4, obviously he didnt understand the relevance even of the 1st one (First required Notice).

Only point he had researched over lunch was that he believed Stat Interest could also be added, even though i supplied the 91 Act in my papers.

He then proceeded to sum up without even considering my argument that even had the 130a notices been sent, the Interest could not be part of the Judgment etc etc. i even had as Exhibits several Adviser and Quartely pieces, i raised this he read a P Madge paper and replied "I dont Know what you mean".
With this in mind he has adjourned to allow me to provide evidence of this, even though it was in front of him all the time!

One point he did raise as he was astounded at the Ludicrous Interest rates is whether i should be looking at getting the Judgment set aside on Unfairness arguments. Whole new area for me to research. Where do i start?

My tact at being a LIP didnt work as i am sure had my Submissions been presented by a Barrister i would be writing a different story.

Only problem we have is that with each day passing Interest is still Accruing, i have had a arreas Notice and could apply for a time Order and/or Freeze the Interest, but how can i do this when i dispute the amount is even owed?

[Guest]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

What were we saying about being "Steamrolled!"

Had the Hearing, the Judge hadnt even looked at my Rejoinder to the Claiments WS.
He dismissed my arguments that we had not received the 130a Notices (even though we had a witness sworn on oath) and they were also not presented in the Charge application papers, he added 1 may have not been sent but not all 4, obviously he didnt understand the relevance even of the 1st one (First required Notice).

Only point he had researched over lunch was that he believed Stat Interest could also be added, even though i supplied the 91 Act in my papers.

He then proceeded to sum up without even considering my argument that even had the 130a notices been sent, the Interest could not be part of the Judgment etc etc. i even had as Exhibits several Adviser and Quartely pieces, i raised this he read a P Madge paper and replied "I dont Know what you mean".
With this in mind he has adjourned to allow me to provide evidence of this, even though it was in front of him all the time!

One point he did raise as he was astounded at the Ludicrous Interest rates is whether i should be looking at getting the Judgment set aside on Unfairness arguments. Whole new area for me to research. Where do i start?

My tact at being a LIP didnt work as i am sure had my Submissions been presented by a Barrister i would be writing a different story.

Only problem we have is that with each day passing Interest is still Accruing, i have had a arreas Notice and could apply for a time Order and/or Freeze the Interest, but how can i do this when i dispute the amount is even owed?

Bloody hell mate what a load of bull****.

Let me get back to you

Peter

[Guest]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

Hi

Trying to get some help with this, could you tell me exactly what the judgment was.

Just to confirm was this a fixed sum of PJI on top of the existing judgment or did it enable them to add interest on an ongoing basis.

Peter

[Thorn1990]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

In a nutshell;
Several Log book Loans each one consolidating the last, totalling £49,723.91 April 08.APR 215.57 per cent!!
DN issued for £64k
Judgment July 2010 for £137k (which was settled in Jan 2012)

"Before and after Judgment Interest" standard wording in the POC and on the Contract.
They are claiming interest under there Clause "failure to pay on time" not the Judgment figure.
THe Judgment has no reference to Interest.

I will now do a SAR.
Have requested exact Loan amounts and dates as impossible to work out from the rollover amounts, but they refuse to give and refer only to the last agreement. We think true amount borrowed £29k! (i know) Anyway all regulated by CCA 74, but could halfway through the Loans 08 it exceeded the £25k limit before it changed and thats why they will not reveal?

I have no problem in uploading all the file if you wish, i will delete all names etc.

Hi

Trying to get some help with this, could you tell me exactly what the judgment was.

Just to confirm was this a fixed sum of PJI on top of the existing judgment or did it enable them to add interest on an ongoing basis.

Peter

[Guest]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

HI

Yes that would be great, there are a number of issues here, not least that the conractural interst is being charged, on the principle post judjment?

Peter

[Thorn1990]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

Hi attachment of bundle up to the point of the Interim Charge Order.

I have included only one of the "Bill of Sale" i did check and they seem to have been filed in time.

I have included the Contract terms which were on the reverse of each Contract. Point to Note .3 "Failure to pay on Time".

The Final payment of of the Judgment figure of £137,067.12 was settled on the 13th Jan 2012.

I havent included any of our ongoing submissions but think you have a good understanding from my posts.

The question is;
1. Have a a case to try and get the Judgment Set aside.
2. Can i successfully argue that the Interest cannot form part of the Judgment and the Creditor should start a new claim if he wants the Interest.
3. Argue all points at the next Hearing (Not Point1) and to cover every eventuality argue Unfairness and ask the Judge to Vary/Reduce/Freeze the Interest and Reduce the Interest what has occurred(London North Securities v Meadows Liverpool cc 28-10-2004), and set a time order to be just to both parties.
Would this be a application to be heard at the same time?

Thanks

[Thorn1990]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

Any Joy??

Does anyone have any recommendations for a Direct Access Barrister in the Manchester/North West that is experienced in my case.

Thanks

[Ihaterbs]

Re: Post Judgment Contractual Interest

Any Joy??

Does anyone have any recommendations for a Direct Access Barrister in the Manchester/North West that is experienced in my case.

Thanks

Jonathon Rule

http://palmyrachambers.com/barrister...ad-of-chambers