Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

[andyb000!]

My son is being chased by a DCA for mail order catalogue debts of which he tells me he knows nothing about.

We can only think that his ex girlfriend, with whom he was living at the time, may have opened up accounts in his name.

He tells me that he himself has never ordered anything, nor received anything, from any of the catalogues, but the debts being chased are nearly £2k.

We have received a partial statement for some of the goods that were apparently ordered. On closer inspection of the dates, it's apparent that items were ordered after he and his girlfriend split up and he returned home to us. We have queried who ordered the goods and what address they were delivered to but have not received a reply as yet.

The DCA sends at least two letters a week plus automated telephone calls threatening further action.

I have pursuaded my son to write to the company concerned (he doesn't see it as his problem) to make a statutory request for a copy of the original CCA. They replied within the 12 days that the mail order company was endeavouring to retrieve the CCA from it's archive.

A question - the mail order company is Shop Direct - but at least three catalogues have been mentioned. Do we have to make a statutory request in respect of each catalogue?, or is the statutory notice served on the DCA to supply the CCA, and therefore one request covers all?

Grateful for any advice.

A

[labman]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

If the DCA is referring to just one account, then you only need to send one CCA request. The chances of Shop Direct coming up with anything are slight. If they do, please post it up with personal details removed for us to look at.

If they reply with anything else suggesting you have to pay money, I would send this:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Your Ref: xxxxxxx

This is a formal request under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008.

I require your organisation to provide written confirmation that states clearly whether you currently hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement, or whether you do not hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement pertaining to myself.

For the avoidance of doubt, an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement is just that; not an application for credit and not a reconstructed or microfiched document from other sources.

Please note that until such times as a legally enforceable, original Consumer Credit Agreement can be produced and a copy sent to me by return, then this letter is not an acknowledgement of debt.

Please also note that failure to provide a direct answer to this request will be brought before the court, should you decide to defy the content of this letter and instruct solicitors to pursue enforcement action regardless.

Yours faithfully,


Should they still continue to pester, then one has to start thinking it is harassment given they cannot prove any debt. There is an awful lot more that can be thrown their way, but see how they respond to the above first.

[teaboy2]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

Also report the matter to the police, because if your sons ex opened the accounts in your sons name then she committed fraud and ID theft which are criminal offences, the police will have to investigate and the DCA will have no choice but to write of the debt, you may also sue them for libel if they issued a default on his credit file, which they will have to remove enlight of ID theft.

[andyb000!]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

Thanks for comments so far

re "If the DCA is referring to just one account..."

I've written on behalf of my son to the DCA asking for clarification as to the number of accounts they are chasing, saying that we've only had notice of deed of transfer of debt for one named catalogue (Kays) and asking for a full statement (only had a partial statement of last five items ordered so far)

We'll see what transpires...

[teaboy2]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

Am afraid without your son writing to them informing them that you are acting as his representative (not legal representative), then they can not inform you off anything or respond to with any details about the accoutns whatsoever, due to the data protection act 1998.

You need to inform your son that this is not a situation to take lightly as they can take him to court and they can and will make him bankrupt, unless he pulls his head out of the sand and starts taking the matter seriously. And don't take this the wrong way, but if he continues the ignore it then hes being an idiot and acting like a child in the hope it will go away, when it will not.

You seriously as a third party witness to this need to contact the police about the fraud by your sons ex partner, because if your son won't deal with this, then that is likely the only way in which you will be able to resolve the matter, unless he agrees to sign a letter stating you are acting as his representative and all communication and contact must be to yourselve regarding the matter.

[andyb000!]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

I should clarify - I compose the letters but they come from him insofar as the DCA is concerned.

Also nothing is signed following advice elsewhere - especially as we don't have any 'signed' CCA's. I don't believe they exist and we're not taking the chance that anybody 'creates' a reconsituted one.

A

[clairedcat]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

Hi Andy,

This is an awful situation to be in for both you and your son. I can only agree

that you need police involvement. Totally fair comment, he signed nothing or

gained anything, he shouldn't have to pay.

Sadly DCA's have a habit of making people pay regardless, whether it be court,

harrassment or CRA files, and they dont stop.

Maybe by reporting it to the police, a crime number might get rid of his alledged

involvement. I dont know for certain, maybe others could advise better.

Good luck with it all.

Claire x

[andyb000!]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

Thanks for the supportive comments guys

It gets worse though as I've now discovered that credit cards are involved too. I'm not convinced any of this is actually his - I speculate he was 'hoodwinked' within the relationship - she was older than he and is apparently an undischarged bankrupt and so unable to apply for credit.

Sadly, because of various circumstances, my son didn't feel able to talk about this with me until now - 2 years later - and a Debt Management Agency (Gregory Pennington?) has already been engaged by his ex-girlfriend but with him named as a joint debtor (and with all the attendant fees this entails) plus an RBS Thinkbanking account. Still trying to unravel how this all works.

The ex G is no longer working so apparently responsibility for the debt repayments falls on him. It's 4/5ths of his income currently going on debt repayment which to me sounds excessive even if it turns out technically it is his debt to repay (yet to be confirmed).

Also for some reason my son is adamant that the police are not involved as suggested. Relationships are strange things I guess.

Will post more when I know more - but this is going to take some time...
I

[bluebottle]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

I'm sorry, but the police need to get involved with this case as quickly as possible. What your son's ex-girlfriend has done is illegal. When did he become aware that she was an undischarged bankrupt?

[labman]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

I know this may be a daft question, but it does just need confirming. Is there solid evidence that the girlfriend is the guilty party here? Is she definitely in possession of the goods ordered or paid for on the credit card?

Sorry to have to ask, but are you sure your son did not agree to her opening the accounts in his name, carried away with the emotion of the relationship?

I think perhaps at least the final bit needs clarifying before police involvement. As for the rest, if it is fraud, I guess it is a case of reporting it and leaving the police to do their job to find the actual fraudster.

[Guest]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

Hi
My unpopular opinion after reading this thread is.

A the police would not touch this with a thirty foot pole anyway

B If it was my son( and it kind of has been), I would tell him to stop bloody whinging and sort it out without try to blame every one else.

C)If he has to pay, installments, challenge amounts due or do whatever it takes to get through the next couple of years untill all his settles down he is going to have to do it, whatever happened it sounds to me, like he let it happen, and sometimes you just have to stand up and take the crap.

D) Tell him you will help him get through it, because thats what dads do as long as he has learned from his mistake.

E) Have a word with a decent debt charity to put you on the right track. I can highly recomend
you hava a chat with Labman as this is his area, and will be able to put you on the rght track


Guess thats me banned again


Peter

[Bill-K]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

Well, they can ban me too, then, Peter - and I'll meet you at the Whig and Pistle for a large Glenfeckit. I guess this is where the 'grey area' is - where the Police dismiss it as a 'Civil' matter, yet we often feel that it is 'Criminal.'

As both you and Labman seem to suggest, in your own individual ways - it needs to be dealt with on a personal, familial, and 'Civil' level first. Let's get some home truths told, and some good 'old-guard' stylee '@$$-kicking' done first.

Then - maybe we should consider whether or not we have something which is not going to be a waste of Police resources. If we can get to that stage, then I reckon we will at least have something which cannot be fobbed off as a 'Civil Matter.'

[labman]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

Genuine fraud is a serious offence, but there must be a reason why your son does not want the police involved.

If this is his attitude, you have to respect his wishes, but that means that he is liable to pay the amount outstanding. If he cannot do that all at once, then it is easy enough to sort out affordable installments. As Peter says, if you pm me I can get this sorted for your son, or go to any other reputable FREE debt charity such as CCCS or Payplan, and they will be able to the same.

Your son cannot have it both ways, he cannot say it is fraud, but then refuse to do anything about it. He needs to choose, and it sounds as though he has, whether he takes responsibility for this, or whether he pursues it as genuine identity theft.

@ Peter, I'm with Bill here. I am sure, or I hope you won't be banned for saying what you think. There's been a fair amount of talk on here about suggesting criminal routes when it is questionable whether or not this is realistic lately. Your post is purely an extension of this discussion, but on a different thread. You certainly have my full support in expressing your views openly as well that of Bill.

@OP If your son needs help paying off this debt, feel free to pm me, or to approach one of the many other free charities I've mentioned above. Just so you know (it used to be in my signature), I run a free, fully licensed and insured debt charity. Affiliated to Legal Beagles, so would be happy to try to help. I am only very small though, and you may prefer one of the bigger players.

[andyb000!]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

Thanks for the continuing thoughts - I'm going to have to gather some more info before I can reply properly and son is away for the w/e now.

I don't disagree with most of what has been posted here but I need to clarify in my own mind what has happened and to have an at length talk before moving forward.

Later

[andyb000!]

Re: Catalogue 'debts' now with DCA

Well a fuller background to this is still 'incomplete' and I don't know if I'll ever uncover the full story - I don't want to say any more 'publicly' about that at this stage.

However, there has been a development on the DCA side of things since making a request under s77/78 CCA '74 a while ago. We asked for a signed copy to prove that my son had entered into an agreement - you'll remember that he says he has no knowledge of this.

We eventually received the following letter from the DCA today, which included four pages - two pages of T&Cs and 2 pages of further T&Cs. I'll paraphrase what it says:

"[re] your recent request for a copy of your agreement.

Your original creditor has provided us with the attached reconstituted copy of the credit agreement you entered into with them, under s77/78 of the [CCA 1974], we are not obliged to send you an exact copy of your signed agreement. We are permitted by these sections of the [CCA 1974] to provide you with a reconstituted copy of the version you would have signed.

We would also confirm the following information as required by the above Act:-

Balance payable against your account : £ [hundreds]

Current state of your account : Defaulted

As we have now fully satisfied our obligations required following your request under [s77/78 CCA 74], we look forward to receiving your proposals for settlement of the account within the next 7 days [etc]. "

The enclosures are, as expected, not signed, but neither are they dated. They do however contain his current address which cannot be right as he was not living here (my address) when this apparently all took place. I've certainly never received nor seen any parcels from the Catalogue Company that they say they have sent.

I'm also confused by the statement in the letter that the CCAct 1974 permits supply of a reconstituted Credit Agreement. Is this true? or have we asked for the wrong thing here? would a SAR have been more appropriate?

Anyway, if this is true and, following through, is also accepted by a Court in a debt recovery action, how does one defend against it if, as my son maintains, he never entered into any agreement in the first place. Does the creditor not have to prove that an agreement exists/existed and that there was a valid contractual relationship to succeed in any court action?

Grateful once again for any thoughts

A