Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

[Salem]

Hi

I am new to this forum and wondered whether anyone can help my current very stressful situation.

I have been a customer with FP since April 2004 when I took out a £40k loan over 20 years with my now estranged husband.

As background, FP/Eversheds took us to court in June this year as my husband who still lives in the mortgaged property fell behind with payments.
Prior to the court case I wrote at least 3 times to FP/Eversheds and requested a redemption figure as we were placing our house on the market for sale but we did not receive a reply. However 3 weeks prior to the hearing they stated in their witness statement to the court that the “total balance outstanding” was £31K (arrears of £4500).
By the time we went to court we had submitted a PPI complaint about 5 weeks earlier and received an offer to purchase our property (we ensured that we accepted the offer price that would cover our 1st mortgage and the amount of £31K that FP stated was outstanding). The judge granted repossession within 3 months to FP/Eversheds on the basis that our PPI complaint was pending and our house was in the process of being sold. A money order of £31k was also awarded to FP for the total monies owing on the loan.

Eversheds wrote to us just after the court case confirming the outcome and confirmed that the proceeds of the sale we had agreed would cover the 1st and 2nd charges.

On 5 September we were notified by FP that our PPI complaint has been successful, the financial redress is sufficient to clear the arrears (in fact FP owes us twice as much as we owe them!) and they are re-structuring the loan so that our balance is amended from £31k to £20k but at the same time our solicitor managing our house sale received a letter from Eversheds dated 6 September stating that the redemption figure is £47K meaning that the proceeds from the sale will now not cover the amount owing to FP.
Can anyone explain this disparity of almost £30k, why we were advised total amount due is vastly different and is there any redress? (I, perhaps, naively assumed that “total balance due” is exactly that and if placed in writing is legally binding).

[teaboy2]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

All you owe is 20K i would contact Evershed and ask where the extra 17K came from, when the court order was for 31K and when minus PPI refund all that is owed is 20K.

I would be geussing but i would think they have added charges and costs on top of the 31K order, but that is way to much amount of difference for it to be cost alone. I would instruct your solicitor to pay the 20K only as that is all that is owed. And get your solicitor to ask for a breack down of the sums they are demanding, making clear note of the amount ordered by the court and the amount now outstanding due to refund of PPI.

[Salem]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

Thanks so much for that Teaboy. This is really stressing me out when all I want is to get rid of FP and sell the house.
I have asked my solicitor to do as you suggest and she has put a letter in the post to them today. When I receive a response I will post it on here as it may help others in a similar situation.

Thanks again.

[teaboy2]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

No problem - keep us updated.

[shell]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

Salem
I think what is happening here is that although the balance stands or stood at £31.000, if you read your T&C's you will see that if you pay your loan off in under 15 years (Or something along those lines) then FP will add all the interest they would have got onto your settlement figure. Very unfair, but that's how they make so much money out of us.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Maybe I'm not making too much sense, but basically you have been payin the loan for 7 years, want to pay it off now and they are adding the 8 years interest ontop of your settlement figure.

[teaboy2]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

Salem
I think what is happening here is that although the balance stands or stood at £31.000, if you read your T&C's you will see that if you pay your loan off in under 15 years (Or something along those lines) then FP will add all the interest they would have got onto your settlement figure. Very unfair, but that's how they make so much money out of us.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Maybe I'm not making too much sense, but basically you have been payin the loan for 7 years, want to pay it off now and they are adding the 8 years interest ontop of your settlement figure.

They can not add interest unless the interest was claimed as part of the debt at court. If the court order is for 31k then that would have included any interest that was claimed as part of the court claim. If they did not claim for the interest then thats their own fault for not doing so.

[shell]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

Sorry, I didn't realise that the court order was to pay just £31.000,

This is FP we are talking about, no morals, no scrupels and not an ounce of decency, if they think they can get away with it they'll try it.

They have no doubt made a mistake and now want to rectify it by demanding more money. Don't let them get away with it.

[teaboy2]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

Sorry, I didn't realise that the court order was to pay just £31.000,

This is FP we are talking about, no morals, no scrupels and not an ounce of decency, if they think they can get away with it they'll try it.

They have no doubt made a mistake and now want to rectify it by demanding more money. Don't let them get away with it.

No problem.

As for them demanding more then the court order allows, well that would be contempt of court i would suspect. As its clear if they wish to claim the interest they would have to take the Debtor to court again for it, before they would become legally entitled to claim the interest on top of the current court order. Which would no doubt annoy a judge in them doing so.

In fact, Salem, when you get a response from the letter your solicitor sent today, with a break down of costs. I would photo copy the break down of costs and send a letter to the court making note to the claiments contempt of court by demanding more than what the court order stated whilst knowing full well that the court order only allowed them to claim 31k not 47k, but ask your solicitor to write the letters for you.

In civil cases involving disputes between private citizens, the behaviour resulting in the ruling is often directed at one of the parties involved rather than at the court directly.
A person found in contempt of court is called a "contemnor." To prove contempt, the prosecutor or complainant must prove the four elements of contempt:

• Existence of a lawful order
• The contemnor's knowledge of the order
• The contemnor's ability to comply
• The contemnor's failure to comply

[Salem]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

Thanks so much

Seriously, this has been stressing me out as much as the original repossession hearing so your advice is a great comfort.

Sorry to be a pain and ask for more advice but do you think that a conveyancing solicitor would be able to send the letter you suggest or am I best to go to someone more specialised?

Thanks again.

[teaboy2]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

Thanks so much

Seriously, this has been stressing me out as much as the original repossession hearing so your advice is a great comfort.

Sorry to be a pain and ask for more advice but do you think that a conveyancing solicitor would be able to send the letter you suggest or am I best to go to someone more specialised?

Thanks again.

Well ideally a solicitor that is a specialist in consumer debt and reprossesion would be best, but i would speck to your current solicitor and find out what experience he/she has in this area. Because you may find that all though he/she is a conveyancing solicitor, he/she may still have a lot of knowledge on such issues and that and his/her knowledge of your case would be of benefit to you.

If however he/she does not have much experience on Debt and reprossesion then you should seek out a solicitor that does.

But end of the day the law is clear, and that is that they must respect the court order by not asking for more than what the judge said they are legally entitled to, that being 31K. Asking you for more is a breach of the court order, which in turn is contempt of court as they will be fully aware of the court order and fully capable of honouring the court order. If they want the interest aswell, then they should have included it as a seperate figure in their original claim (check your POC) but even if they had the judge may have decided that you do not have to pay the interest and only have to pay the outstanding balance they were claiming, though thats unlikely and its more like they failed to include the claim for interest with their claim for the outstanding amount. SO the only way they can be legally entitled to the interest now, would be to take you to court and get the interest amount added to the court order, which is no likely to happen as a judge will see it as unfair and unreasonable for them to have taken you to court twice and maybe even see it as an abuse of process since its claim in the claim form (if memory serves me right) they should have included it when making the original claim.

P.s. you nothing to get stressed out about now, as you have been through the worse part of the process and in a way as strange as it sounds, it would seem them taking you to court has done you a favour and saved you the etc 16K interest that you would have paid if you had kept up repayments over the full term of the agreement. So their cockup has saved you 16k in the longterm.

[Salem]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

Teaboy2, thanks again for your amazing advice.

I will post on here any further developments as they happen.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

Good for you Salem and thanks for posting here.

[Salem]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

Hi

Further to the above I have now received a response via my solicitor dealing with my house sale from Eversheds acting on behalf of Firstplus. My solicitor challenged Eversheds on the redemption figure quoted in their previous correspondence after FP confirmed the balance as much lower amount (£20k as opposed to their quote of £47k) following the successful outcome of my PPI complaint.

As I promised above, I am now posting the reply from Eversheds as follows:

"We can confirm we have instructions from our client to place the matter on hold pending further investigation into your clients complaint regarding payment protection insurance.

To date we have not yet received any instructions from our client to commence enforcement action (if you recall, we had a repossession ruling that could be effected from 20 September).

We will update you should our client instruct us further in this matter once the internal investigation is completed"

Maybe, I'm being a tad paranoid but do I take this to mean that FP/Eversheds are going to attempt to renege on the PPI redress offer and/or take further action on the mortgage/repossession?

Any advice on this on this would be much appreciated.

Thank you so much

[Paul210]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

Firstly it doesnt look like they are trying to renege on the ppi offer, this is simply Eversheds confirming they wont take any action until that has been finalised (monies either paid to you or offset against baalance and loan restructured accordingly. the reason for this is it will alter the redemption figure with the future ppi premiums being removed)

Secondly, with regard to the confusion about the settlemnt figure, I must make it clear that the outstanding balance is not what it costs to pay the loan off early, the redemption figure will oftem include penalties as laid out in the original credit agreement, this is extemely common in the case of secured loans and mortgages. Where you say the court issued a money order for £31K what exactly do you mean, did the court order that this was the only amount outstanding or did they agree the debt was owed (completely different to stating amount payable on redemption) and grant an order for sale and posession?

Is there any chance you could post up the exact wording on the court order?

[twilson]

Re: Firsplus: Redemption v Balance Figures

Please could I have assistance with Firstplus and Eversheds