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Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

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  • Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

    Just attended the final hearing where I was suing a creditor in the Small Claims court.

    My PoC asked for:

    a) A declaration the agreement is unenforceable.
    b) Repayment of all interest charged to the account without agreement.

    The background is that the creditor produced an agreement, which was just a signature box (with sig) where the debtor agrees to be bound by the Act. There was no reference to T&Cs nor any T&Cs shown. They had already admitted they could find no executed agreement and agreed not to enforce or pursue the balance.

    The creditor did try to introduce an agreement signed by another party as evidence of what would have been signed, but the judge did not accept that and the agreement was declared unenforceable.

    I argued the agreement was improperly executed from inception. The judge asked why I had not asked for return of capital payments (payments against goods supplied) in this case, to which I explained I thought it was improper to not pay for goods received. He also queried how the figure I was claiming for interest was arrived at to which I produced a few years statements (far less than the true duration of the account).

    He determined that the interest I had claimed was returnable but off set it against the sum the creditor had already agreed not to pursue.

    Net result - debt written off but no extra money returned for interest charged. I defeated myself!

    I got the distinct impression that had I claimed back all payments made to the account from inception, including the interest, he would have considered such a claim favourably. But only on the production of comprehensive accounts and statements. My error was that the creditor had only agreed not to 'pursue' the balance, not 'written it off'. That meant the judge effectively wrote it off which more than covered the interest I had reclaimed.

    During the trial, four cases were cited: McGuffick and Carey (by the defence), Dimond and Wilson (by me the claimant). During his summing up the judge commented he did not feel bound by the cases cited but didn’t identify which ones. Maybe the written judgment will clarify.
    Last edited by basa48; 24th March 2011, 23:07:PM.
    They were out to get me!! But now it's too late!!
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

    Well done Basa
    Look forward to hearing more if you are able to share

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

      Originally posted by New_Age_Biker View Post
      Well done Basa
      Look forward to hearing more if you are able to share
      Not really much more to say. What more would you like me to explain?

      I am not in possession of the full judgement (I'm not even sure you get one from a small claim), but I will tell anything you wish to know.
      They were out to get me!! But now it's too late!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

        Originally posted by basa48 View Post
        Not really much more to say. What more would you like me to explain?

        I am not in possession of the full judgement (I'm not even sure you get one from a small claim), but I will tell anything you wish to know.
        Well done. You need to send off for the transcript.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

          [quote=basa48;205400]Just attended the final hearing where I was suing a creditor in the Small Claims court.

          Would you be happy to tell us who the creditor is please Basa?

          :tinysmile_aha_t:

          QCK

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

            Thats interesting reading basa thanks
            Its nice to hear they still cant get away with everything even when they contest unforceability

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

              Well Done basa!!

              It does appear that something we all discussed loosely on another thread does in fact hold some water.

              best regards
              Garlok

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

                Basa re post #2
                I am not asking for anything in particular, just trying to gather ammunition.
                As you may recall I have 2 instances of faulty Dn's - which I have accepted, and for the sake of completeness I also have 2 instances of faulty Dn's whch I have not accepted!

                I am interested in the arguments used, which you obviously submitted well, and how the process works.
                I am preparing as the 2 faulty Dn (accepted) creditors are becoming more persistant so they will I suspect issue soon.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

                  Re an Employment Tribunal judgment, you can request 'reasons' within 14 days.
                  Can you do similar with 'small claims'?
                  CAVEAT LECTOR

                  This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                  You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                  Cohen, Herb


                  There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                  gets his brain a-going.
                  Phelps, C. C.


                  "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                  The last words of John Sedgwick

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

                    Originally posted by New_Age_Biker View Post
                    Basa re post #2
                    I am not asking for anything in particular, just trying to gather ammunition.
                    As you may recall I have 2 instances of faulty Dn's - which I have accepted, and for the sake of completeness I also have 2 instances of faulty Dn's whch I have not accepted!

                    I am interested in the arguments used, which you obviously submitted well, and how the process works.
                    I am preparing as the 2 faulty Dn (accepted) creditors are becoming more persistant so they will I suspect issue soon.
                    and the creditor you succeded against?

                    QCK

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

                      I have a simular claim going through the courts in which ALL sums paid under the agreement are being claimed +%

                      The logic being if its unenforcable then you could/should NOT have paid anything

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Sums may be repayable under an unenforceable agreement (possibly).

                        Sorry guys been away for a few days.

                        The creditor was Littlewoods (SDFC).

                        My argument for unenforceable was s61 'prescribed terms'. The 'agreement' was a slip of paper with a sig box agreeing to be bound by the CCA. Nothing more, not even a date. The creditor attempted to introduce a similar agreement signed by another party and with all the PT's but it was nothing like. The judge declared unenforceable.

                        I claimed return of interest because there was never any agreement to charge it to the balance. The judge allowed that, but because the creditor had already agreed not to pursue the balance the judge ruled that was compensation enough. I took that to mean he ruled the outstanding balance was now 'written off' not just 'not pursued'. I used Dimond & Wilson but the judge muttered something about not feeling bound by the case Law we introduced!!?? Not sure at this time which case law he was referring to.

                        I think that was a bad decision, but blame myself because I failed to prove the amount of interest I was claiming. I should have claimed everything I had paid over the life of the account, but felt that was slightly immoral. The Wilson cases would seem to point that way.

                        the creditor – by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms – must (in the light of the provisions in sections 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan monies to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the monies in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid
                        They were out to get me!! But now it's too late!!

                        Comment

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