Outlaw unenforceable agreements.....

[Amethyst]

These suggestions are in discussion in government at the moment.

We NEED your views - BIS HM Treasury Consumer Credit and Personal Insolvency Review - Consultation - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Decision to borrow
· replace any remaining areas of automatic unenforceability of credit agreements with unenforceability without a court order or another appropriate penalty

· rationalise the requirements around signing of agreements so that more agreements can be concluded on line

· rationalise/repeal section 18 of the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) setting out the requirements which apply to multiple agreements

· align all provisions concerning the cancellation of agreements with those which apply to the new right of withdrawal introduced by the Consumer Credit Directive
· repeal or rationalise the CCA provisions which apply to modifying agreements

· rationalise the requirement to provide statements for people who have moved house or entered into an IVA
· require consumers to show genuine disadvantage before a breach of the CCA can make an agreement unenforceable

· review the need for sections 99 and 100 of the CCA concerning Voluntary Terminations

· review the provisions of section 185 CCA 1974 concerning information to be provided to joint account holders

What happens when things go wrong

· requirement for banks to identify and act quickly on snowballing penalty charges/unmanageable debt

· provision of emergency borrowing facilities with limited duration and capped interest rates

· greater public monitoring and review of credit licence holders

· enhanced power to suspend a consumer credit licence

· establish a "warning order" for credit licensing along the lines of estate agents

· enhanced access to criminal records

· accelerated appeals process

· provide for restorative justice

· limit ability of creditors to add excessive interest and charges to bad debt
· ban on orders for sale except in exceptional circumstances and for all unsecured debts below £25,000

· minimum debt thresholds for charging orders (at least £25,000)

· regulate private bailiffs effectively

· ban repossession of goods secured by sale

· rationalise role of Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS)

Managing borrowing and dealing with debt

· tighten credit licensing requirements to set a higher standard for debt management providers

[Caspar]

Re: Outlaw unenforceable agreements.....

Here's my input for what it's worth:

These suggestions are in discussion in government at the moment.

We NEED your views - BIS HM Treasury Consumer Credit and Personal Insolvency Review - Consultation - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Decision to borrow
· replace any remaining areas of automatic unenforceability of credit agreements with unenforceability without a court order or another appropriate penalty Sensible

· rationalise the requirements around signing of agreements so that more agreements can be concluded on line Sensible as long as secure and proveable

· rationalise/repeal section 18 of the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) setting out the requirements which apply to multiple agreements Not familiar with these

· align all provisions concerning the cancellation of agreements with those which apply to the new right of withdrawal introduced by the Consumer Credit Directive Sensible
· repeal or rationalise the CCA provisions which apply to modifying agreements Needs clarification

· rationalise the requirement to provide statements for people who have moved house or entered into an IVA Needs clarification
· require consumers to show genuine disadvantage before a breach of the CCA can make an agreement unenforceable Needs very clear clarification and an indisputable definition of "genuine disadvantage."

· review the need for sections 99 and 100 of the CCA concerning Voluntary Terminations Why does it need reviewing?

· review the provisions of section 185 CCA 1974 concerning information to be provided to joint account holders Why?

What happens when things go wrong

· requirement for banks to identify and act quickly on snowballing penalty charges/unmanageable debt Needs clarification. There needs to be a limit on these charges. Quickly needs defining -ie- within x working days.

· provision of emergency borrowing facilities with limited duration and capped interest rates Good idea

· greater public monitoring and review of credit licence holders Good

· enhanced power to suspend a consumer credit licence Good

· establish a "warning order" for credit licensing along the lines of estate agents 1 warning then revoke license in my opinion

· enhanced access to criminal records Depends what to be used for

· accelerated appeals process Good

· provide for restorative justice Good

· limit ability of creditors to add excessive interest and charges to bad debt Needs clearly defining with a clear upper limit on charges deemed reassonable
· ban on orders for sale except in exceptional circumstances and for all unsecured debts below £25,000 Hmmm! I think basically sensible, but exceptional circumstances needs defining clearly, otherwise open to abuse.

· minimum debt thresholds for charging orders (at least £25,000) I'd agree, though would this just mean more take the bankruptcy route so you lose your house anyway. With charging order you keep it unless you default!

· regulate private bailiffs effectively Dream on!

· ban repossession of goods secured by sale Good

· rationalise role of Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) Define rationalise

Managing borrowing and dealing with debt

· tighten credit licensing requirements to set a higher standard for debt management providers Good

[Guest]

Re: Outlaw unenforceable agreements.....

These suggestions are in discussion in government at the moment.

We NEED your views - BIS HM Treasury Consumer Credit and Personal Insolvency Review - Consultation - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Decision to borrow
· replace any remaining areas of automatic unenforceability of credit agreements with unenforceability without a court order or another appropriate penalty

Not Really aware of any automatic enforceability routes I the CCA now section 127(3-5) has gone ?

·
rationalise the requirements around signing of agreements so that more agreements can be concluded on line

I thought that the distance marketing regulations and the electronic trading regulations, had already done this , it certainly enables agreements to be concluded on line and stipulates the required information that must be given.
Are they talking about improving customer safety of ease for creditors I wonder.

· rationalise/repeal section 18 of the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) setting out the requirements which apply to multiple agreements

Section18 has always been a nightmare. It certainly should be re worked so it stops creditors getting around regulation. Especially since the removal of the upper limit has altered the main source of the abuse

· align all provisions concerning the cancellation of agreements with those which apply to the new right of withdrawal introduced by the Consumer Credit Directive
· repeal or rationalise the CCA provisions which apply to modifying agreements

OK

· rationalise the requirement to provide statements for people who have moved house or entered into an IVA
· require consumers to show genuine disadvantage before a breach of the CCA can make an agreement unenforceable

This is the way things are going any way, the day of the technical challenge to an agreement are long gone I am afraid.

It seems to me that the act already does this though ib that an agreement when challenged under section 65 can only be enforced by an order under section127 which is granted based on the prejudice caused. Unless they mean doing away with section 65 altogether

· review the need for sections 99 and 100 of the CCA concerning Voluntary Terminations

Really depends on what is meant . These section are a great idea but a nightmare to use in practice, dealers routinely flaunt theses sections and most times debtors give up rather than use this protection.
　　

· review the provisions of section 185 CCA 1974 concerning information to be provided to joint account holders

What happens when things go wrong

· requirement for banks to identify and act quickly on snowballing penalty charges/unmanageable debt

· provision of emergency borrowing facilities with limited duration and capped interest rates

· greater public monitoring and review of credit licence holders

· enhanced power to suspend a consumer credit licence

· establish a "warning order" for credit licensing along the lines of estate agents

· enhanced access to criminal records

· accelerated appeals process

· provide for restorative justice

· limit ability of creditors to add excessive interest and charges to bad debt
· ban on orders for sale except in exceptional circumstances and for all unsecured debts below £25,000

· minimum debt thresholds for charging orders (at least £25,000)

· regulate private bailiffs effectively

· ban repossession of goods secured by sale

· rationalise role of Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS)

Managing borrowing and dealing with debt

· tighten credit licensing requirements to set a higher standard for debt management providers

More to come

[Guest]

Re: Outlaw unenforceable agreements.....

RE

provision of emergency borrowing facilities with limited duration and capped interest rates

As someone heavily involved in the Credit Union movement for some years , I have been well aware of the effects of financial exclusion on the poorer sections of our society.
The efforts of the CU to reduce the prejudicial effects of the“door step lender” on both individuals and wider communities has met with some limited success by offering small low interest loans hat the banks and other financial institutions are unable or unwilling to provide.
Recent guidelines have enabled most to at least have a basic bank account. Whilst this is certainly a step in the right direction it has brought with it a new problem and that is the high interest internet short term loans.
In many cases these together with other high interest products have taken over from the doorstep lender with some people taking as many as five different loans, using one to pay the other. Leading to the inevitable conclusion of more long term debt.
The continuing practice of targeting high interest loans on the members of the community least able to pay, has to my mind been one of the more shameful aspects of the finance industry. Whilst realising there commercial reasons why these interest rates must be above those offered under “normal” circumstances I feel that as a civilised society we must do all we can to redress this unfairness. The commercial sector will not help, voluntary codes do not work.
I and my organisation agree that some kind of interest rate cap must be employed as a matter of urgency by lenders to limit the spread of these firms.
Following this there must be a requirement for lenders to provide , perhaps as a percentage of their overall turnover, a number of low value affordable loans at normal rates.
Peter

[basa48]

Re: Outlaw unenforceable agreements.....

· require consumers to show genuine disadvantage before a breach of the CCA can make an agreement unenforceable

This is the only section I wish to comment on, and that would be:

Why bother with legislation if breaches can be ignored on the subjective whim of a judge?

What may not be a disadvantage to a judge may be a major disadvantage to me. Would be being made broke count?

[Angry Cat]

Re: Outlaw unenforceable agreements.....

Decision to borrow
· replace any remaining areas of automatic unenforceability of credit agreements with unenforceability without a court order or another appropriate penalty

· rationalise the requirements around signing of agreements so that more agreements can be concluded on line - AGREE

· rationalise/repeal section 18 of the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) setting out the requirements which apply to multiple agreements

NEEDS TO BE REPEALED AND MADE CLEARER

· align all provisions concerning the cancellation of agreements with those which apply to the new right of withdrawal introduced by the Consumer Credit Directive
· repeal or rationalise the CCA provisions which apply to modifying agreements

ABSOLUTELY AGREE AND SHOULD ALSO BE MADE RETROSPECTIVE, AS PER WHEN THE EU DIRECTIVE FIRST MADE MENTION OF CANCELLATION/WITHDRAWAL: EU DMD 2000

· rationalise the requirement to provide statements for people who have moved house or entered into an IVA - YES

· require consumers to show genuine disadvantage before a breach of the CCA can make an agreement unenforceable

· review the need for sections 99 and 100 of the CCA concerning Voluntary Terminations

· review the provisions of section 185 CCA 1974 concerning information to be provided to joint account holders

What happens when things go wrong

· requirement for banks to identify and act quickly on snowballing penalty charges/unmanageable debt - AGREE

· provision of emergency borrowing facilities with limited duration and capped interest rates

· greater public monitoring and review of credit licence holders - ABSOLUTELY AND THE TAKING OF ENFORCEMENT ACTION AS OPPOSED TO WRIST SLAPPING

· enhanced power to suspend a consumer credit licence - AS ABOVE

· establish a "warning order" for credit licensing along the lines of estate agents - YES

· enhanced access to criminal records - NO

· accelerated appeals process

· provide for restorative justice

· limit ability of creditors to add excessive interest and charges to bad debt
· ban on orders for sale except in exceptional circumstances and for all unsecured debts below £25,000 - DEFINATELY

· minimum debt thresholds for charging orders (at least £25,000)

· regulate private bailiffs effectively - ABSOLUTELY AGREE

· ban repossession of goods secured by sale YES

· rationalise role of Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) YES

Managing borrowing and dealing with debt

· tighten credit licensing requirements to set a higher standard for debt management providers - YES

[Angry Cat]

Re: Outlaw unenforceable agreements.....

Slightly amended sorry, have added EU DMD 2000

[Amethyst]

Re: Outlaw unenforceable agreements.....

I think we agree in the main part with everything, although I do have to disagree with the minimum £25k for a charging order due to the increased risk then of bankruptcy proceedings and so on. So think thats about all I can put, we agree lol.

Thanks for looking AC, its nice to see that most of us appear to be on the same page with this with some small concerns about definitions and practice .

[Angry Cat]

Re: Outlaw unenforceable agreements.....

Yes, looks like we all agree'ish

I have for some time had concerns about cancellation rights re: online applications;
the EU DMD 2000 msut be of benefit to those who made online applciation prior to 2002.;
important!

[Amethyst]

Re: Outlaw unenforceable agreements.....

Thanks AC, I think keep your eyes open for the inevitable CCA amendments consultation so you can get stronger comments in - I'll let you know if/when it comes up, all I have been able to put on this one is that we agree with the proposals.