unenforceable credit agreement CCA prescribed terms?

[caledonia2]

Hi Guys can any off you tell me if this cca complies with the prescribed terms is it enforceable or not? It was a blank credit agreement sent by next which was not signed? Next claim it for an account I opened in 2005? Next have admitted they don't have a signed credit agreement on file.

Please find a copy of it enclosed!

Robert

[Curlyben]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

Next are well known for not bothering to obtain a signed agreement, so they cannot comply with a s78 request or take enforcement action.

[Guest]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

Hi Guys can any off you tell me if this cca complies with the prescribed terms is it enforceable or not? It was a blank credit agreement sent by next which was not signed? Next claim it for an account I opened in 2005? Next have admitted they don't have a signed credit agreement on file.

Please find a copy of it enclosed!

Robert

Hi

Can i ask, was ther a interest rate quoted on any of the purchases on your account.

Peter

[caledonia2]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

They don't show an interest rate on the statements re the items purchased on the account they only state an apr on the credit agreement there is no interest rate I can see on the statement regarding items purchase. All they show on the statement is some type of service charge for the account. So in answer to your question it does not show on the statements the interest payable just the value of the items ordered the balance of the items new balance and minimum payment. The credit agreement states the APR but the statements dont show how much interest is payable.

One thing gets me about the agreement they state they will decide the credit limit and they may vary this at any time but they don't tell will inform me of the credit limit or show me the credit limit at the time of the account opening. I thought they had to tell you what the credit limit was under the prescribed terms?

On the agreement they state they may charge me for administering my account but don't tell me what the charges are set at. Are they not supposed to mention any administration charges in the credit agreement is that not part of the prescribed terms? I know this the agreement has never been signed by me. What are the prescribed terms are they all mentioned on this agreement or are there any missing? Is the debt enforceable? They have also registered a default against my name with the three credit reference agencies. Next have clearly stated they dont have a signed credit agreement on file. Is this agreement enforceable in a court of law or unenforceable does section 127 (3) of the consumer credit act 1974 apply to this or does this contain all the prescribed terms someone help me please its doing my head in argh! :rant:

[Caspar]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

Next are well known for not bothering to obtain a signed agreement, so they cannot comply with a s78 request or take enforcement action.

Sorry Curly - keep coming to you for advice!

What you say is obviously correct, but am I right in thinking that despite this the debt, though unenforceable, is still owed, so could affect the OP's credit file / rating?

[Curlyben]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

Yep, they will still happily trash the credit files.

[Guest]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

Hi

Yes they are stuffed.

There is an exemption under section 16, but if there is an APR is quoted, then there must be a charge for credit.

Peter

[Guest]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

They don't show an interest rate on the statements re the items purchased on the account they only state an apr on the credit agreement there is no interest rate I can see on the statement regarding items purchase. All they show on the statement is some type of service charge for the account. So in answer to your question it does not show on the statements the interest payable just the value of the items ordered the balance of the items new balance and minimum payment. The credit agreement states the APR but the statements dont show how much interest is payable.

One thing gets me about the agreement they state they will decide the credit limit and they may vary this at any time but they don't tell will inform me of the credit limit or show me the credit limit at the time of the account opening. I thought they had to tell you what the credit limit was under the prescribed terms?

On the agreement they state they may charge me for administering my account but don't tell me what the charges are set at. Are they not supposed to mention any administration charges in the credit agreement is that not part of the prescribed terms? I know this the agreement has never been signed by me. What are the prescribed terms are they all mentioned on this agreement or are there any missing? Is the debt enforceable? They have also registered a default against my name with the three credit reference agencies. Next have clearly stated they dont have a signed credit agreement on file. Is this agreement enforceable in a court of law or unenforceable does section 127 (3) of the consumer credit act 1974 apply to this or does this contain all the prescribed terms someone help me please its doing my head in argh! :rant:

Hi
Sorry just re read your post
I think from what you say they will probably say that the exemption to the act applies.
It is probably why they refer to the charges as administration fee.
The exemption says , something like if the agreements is for a restricted number of people and there is a charge for credit less than a figure set by regulations then it is exempt, would have to look up the correct wording.
Having said that I do not know of any Catalogue company trying to use this in court so you still may be OK.
Peter

[caledonia2]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

Sorry I don't quite follow the interest rate does not appear on the statements but does appear on the credit agreement as apr does this mean they are exempt from it or not? Also have they complied with all the other prescribe terms? You can see a pdf copy of the credit agreement in the pdf I attached earlier. Also are they required under the prescribed terms to tell you what the administration charges they would apply be? I need a detailed run down to see if they have complied with all the prescribed terms as I am aware under 127 (3) of the act the agreement is unenforceable where the agreement does not contain all the prescribed terms and has not been signed? Also did you mean they had to show the interest on the credit agreement or the statement of the account? Sorry to ask but this is still new to me.

[caledonia2]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

Another point To bring up is in there recent email they say section 127 (3) does not apply to the account but I am sure it probably does they do not state how much they will charge for an administrative fee either. I still am not sure about the credit limit they say they will decide the credit limit and that they reserve the right to vary this. My understanding is they would have to either state what the credit limit was or that they would notify me of the credit limit which they don't state. I have heard from next they say the recent high court rules means they can enforce this agreement but they have a problem there. You see I reside in Scotland so the cases there pointing out based on case law of England don't apply here as there was a change to the act of serdunt which states that they have to aver a signed executed credit agreement exists which I believe may mean that they have to produce it when requested in court if they dont the court can rule the agreement unenforceable by law.

But my main problem is weather it complies with all the prescribed terms or not as I have never looked at prescribed terms before? And if I haven't signed it can a judge legally enforce it if it contains all the prescribed terms? Do they need to tell you what the charges for administering the account will be in the credit agreement? The I find the prescribed terms a bit difficult to work out!

[Amethyst]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

service charge is a catalogues way of charging interest without saying they are charging your interest.

have a look for some other next threads, also simply be, littlewoods etc, you'll find quite a lot of similar cases.

Tools had a simply be account, he used the lack of agreement to negotiate that he only repaid the amount owed for the actual goods he had had, and got interest and charges wiped off, so it didnt affect the credit file and he wasnt paying anything he wasnt entitled to.

My stance is you should pay for the goods, but without a credit agreement they can sing for the interest and charges.

They have admitted there isnt a signed copy so I would use that to negotiate settlement or monthly installments on the purchase value of goods you had.

[caledonia2]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

So amethyst what do you recon would be a good offer to make them I am on benefits so I have very little cash and they apparently gave me credit of £3017.15 pence worth of credit even though during that time I was a student getting less than £5000 in that year followed by basic benefits next year which i think at the time was just under £70 a week. Now I am still on basic benefits.

[Amethyst]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

Blimey £3k of debt with next, don't think i could find that much worth buying in their catalogue lol.

Is that without interest/charges (ie the purchase price of the goods)

There is irresponsible lending to consider when negotiating, brinigng in the fact you were a student on a very low income when they allowed you to run up so much debt, but there is also responsible borrowing.

Offer wise, you'd draw up a full Income Expenditure sheet, to see what your ''disposable income'' is after essentials and other commitments and make a proportional offer for monthly installments based on that.

If you arent fussed at all about your credi rating then you can consider going down the unenforceable agreement route (nopt paying, arguing the toss and waiting for them to take action for you to defend - hoping they don't as they have no agreement etc) but i think from reading about you already know the success on that is more limited nowadays and that it would end up with a D on your credit file for 6 years.

I dont believe their argument on 127(3) exemption will wash at all. (I havent read any Next cases for a it tho so someone who has will know better)

Really depends what you want to do.

[caledonia2]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

Hi yes 3K of debt but the debt was built up over two years apparently it doesn't say if thats with or without interest I think it would be with interest. I had been responsible by the looks of it most of the stuff ordered was for clothes. I was making payment until the bank closed my student account and demanded there 2K worth of student debt which was spent on food rent and lodgings the five grand you get from the government doesn't mount to much Provident where getting paid as well I think they are own £1K but the thing to note is with all these companies I had an excellent credit rating I was managing to pay back everything until the bank charges hut my account. Another thing with next was they kept raising and lowering the credit limit all the time without notice this made it harder for me to stay in a credit limit as they constantly raised then the next month lowered it I am tempted to ask next if they charged any late payment fees and how much they were.

Its easy to say after the event I will never do that again but when they are flinging credit at you it becomes so easy to think that it will come in handy and me having Asperger's syndrome I have never been very good with money management. If I had of realised how much those wee loans provident could just re finance were going to cause me or the mental or physical stress I would suffer or the dreading to pick up the phone then I would have avoided them at all costs. Thinking back perhaps the best option for me is bankruptcy it will last a year but at the end I will merge in better shape than I went in to it. Fair enough I wont be able to get credit for at least six years but hey I can always save up and by a house lol! I dont really want to do it but it looks like the only option left as I don't have any spare income really to pay off the debts. My advice to students is don't go to provident for a loan the interest alone will cripal you don't take out a student current account just stick to a basic account and don't ever get a catalogue. Also don't hide your head in shame and spend a few years trying to hide from the creditors I did wanting to pretend everything was all right and really its not. But I know this everything I want even if it is a house I will save up for with my own cash and pay for cash up front from now on.

[Amethyst]

Re: Does this cca comply with the prescribed terms?

Have you done a full Subject Access Request for a list of all transactions on the account ? you should do that then pick off all the service charges and late payment charges etc and see what the actual purcahse amount of the goods were (unless you have kept your statements ? )

Some good advice there xx

You will have a much better idea of the overall picture if you do the IE sheets, Provident could accept a reduced amount too.

bank charges are a killer, and it is such a shame we cant use that at the moment as the consequences are harsh, but there are cases still going on, and we're working on changing the future so it doesnt happen to others, have you tried anything with bank charges under hardship guidelines (lending code etc) ? That might be worth a couple of letters to the bank and FOS to try get at least some from when you were in hardship back. You could use those to pay off next and provident ? or is there still a debt with the bank needs sorting too ?