Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Telephone

The Regulations recognise the impracticalities of a supplier providing all of the above information to a consumer where the means of distance communication is over the telephone. In these circumstances the regulations allow a reduced requirement on what information is to be provided.
Best practice recommendation is that when suppliers promote and sell their products by telephone, they should begin by stating the caller's name and the fact that they are a sales representative employed by or acting on behalf of the supplier (naming the supplier). The caller should then clearly describe the product including the main characteristics. They should also clearly state the total price including taxes, or if it is not possible to give a fixed price then the means of calculating the price. The consumer should also be advised that further information is available on request and that there is the right to withdraw from the contract within the cancellation period.
As the call progresses and the consumer expresses an interest in entering the contract the supplier should provide information to the consumer regarding the respective contractual obligations.
Following up

As well as providing the prior information listed above, the supplier should also ensure that he communicates all the contractual terms and conditions specified above to the consumer on paper or another durable medium (which includes sending a copy through e-mail or post). The supplier should do this in good time prior to the conclusion of the contract. Where the consumer has requested that the contract be concluded using a means of distance communication then it should happen immediately after conclusion of the contract. Suppliers must also provide the consumer with a copy of the terms and conditions when requested unless the supplier has already communicated these to the consumer and they have not changed.
It is worth noting that suppliers should try to provide a copy of the terms and conditions as soon as possible in order to effectively conclude the contract. The cancellation period (discussed below) only begins when the paper or other durable medium copy of the contract terms and conditions is received by the consumer. If the supplier provides the required information in a timely manner the cancellation period will be kept to a minimum and the consumer will have as little time as possible to cancel the contract. This is a win-win situation for the supplier, who appears to their consumer to be helpful and efficient, while at the same time ensuring legal compliance and protecting their commercial interests.
The consumer can request that the means of distance communication be changed and the supplier should comply unless this is incompatible with the distance contract or the nature of the financial service provided to the consumer. For example, where the contract is an on-line financial service and it would be incompatible for the supplier to change to telephone communications."

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Well to be honest I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday let alone what was said and not said on the phone in 06 when I applied. What I do know is that my credit limit was £2,500 and not £3,000.00 as HSBC are showing, but I have no way of proving this, and not that it will make any difference either IMO.

The DM regs state the word the supplier should do and should that, but not a requirement.

I don't think I will be able to get far using this argument, as they will always have some act or regulation to say that they are not obliged to do this.

Thanks AC for that, good to learn.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Information provided under a FULL SAR will reveal much...

Also, if it were me, I would require proof that the correct cancellation rights were served.
However, HSBC will probably say they were. Therefore, unless you can provide proof that they were not, the argument will fail

What a great pity that members did not file all their documents.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks AC again, to be honest I really cannot be asked to go through all that. I have never denied owing this debt neither avoided paying it. In fact I believe that I have done all I can and could have.

End of the day is that I had the card, I used the money and I have to pay this back. I will get this sorted out one way or the other.

If I do get a CCJ then there is not much I can do, or if HSBC agree to accept a repayment plan. I know when your sinking you try to grab on to everything and anything you can.........but that was not what I was doing.

Bottom line is that I needed HSBC to accept reduced, they said no, I got six letters with their refusals to accept, fair enough they are not obliged to accept and there is nothing I can do to force them.

There is no point in me nit picking to find faults in my agreement to find a way out of paying as this would contradict everything I have been doing and saying. I wanted to pay they didn't want what I was offering.

OK, so I complained to the FOS but that is what they are there for right? I never wanted my agreement to end but if that is the price I have to or shall I say have paid by HSBC terminating my agreement then so be it. I have to do what is morally right. I have never ran away from my debts, as I never used to have any as I was always sensible with my finances until OH came in to my life......but I am not going to blame anyone and do the right and sensible thing.

I am 40 next week and they say that life begins at 40 and that is what I am going to focus on. Get myself and my finances sorted as this has gone on long enough and I think enough is enough as things and stress like this can take their toll. I will try and negotiate with HSBC prior to the hearing......if they do not accept then I will have no choice but to let the court decide what is the best way forward. If for nothing else I will inform the court about the serious attempts I made to negotiate with HSBC and there repeated refusals.

End of the day the court will not order me to pay more than I can afford, and I know that they don't hang you for being in debt in this country because if they did then my OH would have been strung up a long time ago LOL.

Hope this is the best way out of this maze I'm in.

[WendyB]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Well said Jumper, common sense approach without allowing technicalities to cloud the issue. Good luck if and when it does get to Court. As you said, if you point out your willingness all along to come to an arrangement it can only look good for you and bad for them. Hope you get a common sense Judge.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks Wendy I think common sense went out of window years ago. Will just have to wait and see what happens. That's all I can do.

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hello jumper

In my opinion, based on what you have stated about your case, I stand by what I have stated in your defence against this action.

It is clear to me that it was never your intention to break the agreement, cases of this type involving these circumstances or similar are not straight forward and this means that the claimant's claim will not be decided in a cut and dried fashion.

There are very bad consumers/debtors out there in our country, you jumper, are most certainly not one of them.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck and I hope you have an enjoyable Birthday next week.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks G, appreciate all your help and support you have given.

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Interesting DN-based successful defence OTR here...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ce-****WON****

A bit long-winded but well worth a look. Am sure some here will not appreciate it, but it does show that not all courts favour the banks by default (no pun intended!).

LA

[pt2537]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

but it wasnt won on the evidence,

there is a major difference

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hello PT

That post you put up regarding the car theft, that is not a comparable PT to these circumstances, you could of posted up the Landlord and Tennant case to use as a comparable.

PT you admit that the Judgment in Brandon, in your opinion, is wrong, you are a qualified Solicitor, if you know what's wrong, why do you bring out your F18's to shoot down the arguments being put forward for the defence in this case, why do you disagree so?

Anyway, jumper, good luck with your decision in this matter (I do not feel any luck is needed).

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

PT you admit that the Judgment in Brandon, in your opinion, is wrong, you are a qualified Solicitor, if you know what's wrong, why do you bring out your F18's to shoot down the arguments being put forward for the defence in this case, why do you disagree so?

Anyway, jumper, good luck with your decision in this matter (I do not feel any luck is needed).

Kind Regards

Godzilla

Costs re: LIP's!

I actually do sympathise with jumper, his/her case does actually cause reason for concern...

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hi AC,

Do you think that I will get costs against n=me and is we talking hundreds, thousands or millions?

[pt2537]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Godzilla

are you really that silly, that you have to make such comments?

If i believe a judgment is wrong, it doesnt matter, as the fact is, right or wrong the judgment is the judgment and we are stuck with it.

i am well aware of the comparability of the situations as well, yes i could have referred to the "manni investments" case and cross referred to it with regards to notices of assignments but i didnt and the point i was trying to make is that i believe you are seriously wrong.

I have been through Halsburys laws of England Contract Volume 9, Chitty on contract, White book, Blackstones civil Practice and of course the legal databases for research.

Unsurprisingly, i find nothing that supports your contentions

so, please provide an authority or reference for the contention that failing to pay is not a breach of contract


for the avoidance of doubt, no drooling or drivel will be accepted, just case authorities or reference materials which are authoritative in the UK

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Isn't it the case with Jumper that there was no intent to breach the agreement, and that she did all she could to ensure that the agreement remained in place despite reduced circumstances? There is ample evidence that this is so, in her various letters and those from the bank that reject their contents.

For the bank to refuse to accept even a temporary arrangement, it is in effect denying that temporary adverse circumstances might affect one of their customers during the very long lifetimes of their rolling credit products. The Lending Code recognises that these situations may arise, hence it's statements that include;

137: Subscribers should be sympathetic and positive when considering a customer’s financial difficulties

146: The subscriber should explore a range of options with the customer

166: Where the subscriber considers the customer’s personal and financial circumstances to be exceptional and unlikely to improve, the subscriber may, among other options, consider writing off or not pursuing part or all of the customer’s debt(s). Where write-off is requested by a customer or adviser but is not considered appropriate by the subscriber, the subscriber must give their reasons in writing. If the subscriber agrees to a write-off, then the debt may be registered as a default with the credit reference agencies.

The Lending Code makes no mention of breach of contract when the borrower suffers financial hardship - it is a fact of life that these events occur.

As there has been no intent to breach the contract, the analogy of the car theft is therefore misleading; theft of a car requires intent.

LA