Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Jumper

Sorry about this, hello Lord_Alcohol, great input and that is not because that's what I and the op want hear, the Brandon case dose not fit the feet that this case has to stand on.

LA, Godzilla is also 'The Mould' from CAG, hence the hello to you.

Kind Regards

Godzilla
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Jumper

What do you want to do? Defend or accept the claim?

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Is it me or is getting hot in here? Never had so many guys fight over at once like this LOL!!!!

[pt2537]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

if i agree to borrow 10,000 and agree to repay that at 100 per month,

these are express terms in contract law

If i then breach the repayment term, i am without question in breach of contract and the injured party can sue for damages for my breach, basic contract law, infact A level law this

so, if you make a contract and break it, there is a claim available

now the CCA places an osticle in the way of this, but it does not move the goal posts, by this i mean the CCA dont turn a breach of contract into something other than a breach, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck well you get the picture

so this argument about repudiation, i dont follow, you show an intention not to be bound by the contract by failing to pay, and repeating this failing

how then is the creditor repudiating

CASE LAW PLEASE? cos i can find nothing on all the major references i have here

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Just off to my bed now, jamas on.

But out of curiousity, I will ask one question:

How was the application for credit made?

By post;
at a branch;
or via distance marketing: internet?

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hi AC it was by phone and application was sent home, I signed then sent back

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

if i agree to borrow 10,000 and agree to repay that at 100 per month,

these are express terms in contract law

If i then breach the repayment term, i am without question in breach of contract and the injured party can sue for damages for my breach, basic contract law, infact A level law this

so, if you make a contract and break it, there is a claim available

now the CCA places an osticle in the way of this, but it does not move the goal posts, by this i mean the CCA dont turn a breach of contract into something other than a breach, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck well you get the picture

so this argument about repudiation, i dont follow, you show an intention not to be bound by the contract by failing to pay, and repeating this failing

how then is the creditor repudiating

CASE LAW PLEASE? cos i can find nothing on all the major references i have here

True what you say pt,

But what about all those people who have mortgage agreements and fall in to arrears, some in their thousands and the courts allow them to pay off what they can afford and some even are allowed to get the arrears added on to the mortgage and spread out throughout the full term.

I believe I read a case law on this, will have to think it was maybe on CAG.

I know that mortgage agreements are different to cc agreements but I think also that there is more sympathy for mortgage arrears than cc arrears, that's just my opinion.

Also never did I once show any intention to break the contract/agreement. Far from it, I informed HSBC prior to when I was to expect financial difficulty and never wanted to end the agreement.

I'm one card down in my purse, there is a slot missing and I am sad as I liked to keep them even the old ones.

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

if i agree to borrow 10,000 and agree to repay that at 100 per month,

these are express terms in contract law

If i then breach the repayment term, i am without question in breach of contract and the injured party can sue for damages for my breach, basic contract law, infact A level law this

so, if you make a contract and break it, there is a claim available

now the CCA places an osticle in the way of this, but it does not move the goal posts, by this i mean the CCA dont turn a breach of contract into something other than a breach, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck well you get the picture

so this argument about repudiation, i dont follow, you show an intention not to be bound by the contract by failing to pay, and repeating this failing

how then is the creditor repudiating

CASE LAW PLEASE? cos i can find nothing on all the major references i have here

PT

The case law is to come and it will go on.

In this particular case the debtor did not show any indication that he/she did not intend to be bound by the contract. A simply breach of a term/condition/clause does not amount to default on the contract, that is, not honouring the agreement, the op gave clear communications to the creditor of financial difficulties, if anything the creditor could claim anticipatory breach, but even this type of breach does not go to the root of the contract, not in these particular circumstances, for the creditor to withdraw from the contract in these circumstances, is repudiation by him (he did not need to take such drastic action) the creditor breaches the contract and that is a fundamental breach by the creditor, in these circumstances.

Legal matters do not always need case law to refer to nor do they always need a precedent, as said, the case law is to come.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[ed.]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Is this spanning into a defence under unfair rels? Tis the only way I can imagine that you could deem a creditor did not have to take such drastic action, because the simple fact is they can contractually.

[pt2537]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

PT

The case law is to come and it will go on.

In this particular case the debtor did not show any indication that he/she did not intend to be bound by the contract. A simply breach of a term/condition/clause does not amount to default on the contract, that is, not honouring the agreement, the op gave clear communications to the creditor of financial difficulties, if anything the creditor could claim anticipatory breach, but even this type of breach does not go to the root of the contract, not in these particular circumstances, for the creditor to withdraw from the contract in these circumstances, is repudiation by him (he did not need to take such drastic action) the creditor breaches the contract and that is a fundamental breach by the creditor, in these circumstances.

Legal matters do not always need case law to refer to nor do they always need a precedent, as said, the case law is to come.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

I do not mean to be rude

but, its like saying that, smashing a window on a car, hotwiring it and taking it for a ride doesnt amount to theft contrary to the Theft Act

if you breach your repayment clause, you are indeed defaulting on the contract, this is actionable as the creditor can sue you, subject to the requirements of s87(1) being complied with

when you stop paying you are intimating an intention not to adhere to the contract, to suggest otherwise is like saying Saddam Hussein is a nice guy and that Michael Jackson should work in a kindergarten

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I cannot see anywhere in my agreement it saying that if I default then the creditor is entitled then I have breached my agreement and the creditor is entitled to enforce all the sums owed.

Or does this information not have to be present?

[pt2537]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I cannot see anywhere in my agreement it saying that if I default then the creditor is entitled then I have breached my agreement and the creditor is entitled to enforce all the sums owed.

Or does this information not have to be present?

doesnt need to

in much the same way as a food blender wont have a sticker on the from saying if you put your hand in and turn it on your fingers will be diced

its a given, and there is no statutory requirements for these words to appear in the agreement, sorry, but thats the case

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks pt, my brain hurts now what's left of it. So it has been established that I am flogging a dead horse here, what are my options to put an end to all this and come to a solution with HSBC? Should I write an make an offer?

Thank you for all your input today, I have taken it all in.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

If I go to court and admit the claim can HSBC apply interest to my debt? As they have applied for this on the POC.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hi AC it was by phone and application was sent home, I signed then sent back

Okay, I noticed on the reconstructed agreement that Distance Marketing was mentioned.

http://www.out-law.com/page-477

However, it would appear that the requirements were lesser in relation to telephone sales.

Important to tick off all possibilities, though.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks AC,

Just had a quick flick through the above link. Does it mean that according to the DM regulations that my agreement should have contained this information, because they have stated in my agreement that I should refer to my copy of my agreement which I do not have.

Required information

Before the consumer is bound into the contract the supplier (or their intermediary) must supply the following information:
Supplier's identity

• the identity and main business of the supplier, geographical address at which the supplier is established and any other address relevant to the consumer's relationship with the supplier;
• where the supplier is not based in the consumers' EU Member State, but has a representative in that country, the identity of the representative should be given along with the geographical address;
• the identity and geographical address of any other professional who will have dealings with the consumer;
• particulars of registration in any trade or public register, for example a Companies House registration number;
• particulars of any relevant supervisory authority, for example a FSA registration number and a link to their web site;
• description of the main characteristics of the financial service;

Product details

• the total price to be paid by the consumer including all related fees etc.;
• where relevant, details should be given regarding any fluctuations in price that are dependent on factors out-with the supplier's control;
• notice of any extra taxes that may exist that are not paid via the supplier or imposed by him;
• any limitations of the period for which the information provided is valid;

Contract particulars

• arrangements for the payment and performance and any additional costs for the consumer for using distance communication;
• whether there is a right of cancellation and if so, cancellation information;
• the minimum duration of the distance contract in the case of financial services to be provided immediately;
• information on any rights of termination and any penalties imposed;
• practical instructions for exercising the right of cancellation;
• the European Economic Area member state whose laws the supplier is taking as the basis for the contract;
• any contractual clause on the law applicable to the distance contract or on the law applicable to the competent court;
• the languages that the contractual terms will be made in and in which the supplier will communicate for the duration of the contract;
• whether there is an out-of-court claim and the methods for accessing this; and
• the existence of guarantee funds or other compensation agreements.

The above information must be provided to the consumer in a clear and comprehensible manner on paper or another durable medium appropriate to the means of distance communication used before the contract can be concluded.
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Where it says product details "total price to be paid"

I know they are not required to state what the credit limit is, as they are allowed to say that the credit limit will be determined by us from time to time.

So how could they write a total price to be paid if they did not write how much that price would be, or should I say I did not know how much it would be?

No dates of when I should make repayments on my agreement either, I assume that is also not necessary?